Chris White Juniper II pointing ability

[jdazey]

Carissa has the old Juniper unstayed masts/sails. Henck sailed Juniper with the new stayed rig. Different boats. Somewhere in his book on web site, Chris talks about the limitations of the old unstayed rig and the sort of whiplash effect it gave.

I considered Carissa, but having read Chris' account of the unstayed rig, I felt I would need to re-rig the boat to get what I was after. Someone else could easily feel differently. It is a lot of boat for the (asking) money.

[Training Wheels]

Depends, of course on conditions. Good conditions I've set the AP 35 deg AWA. Can pinch higher. We can out point most racing monos, but that doesn't mean that's the best VMG. It's just kind of fun to sail over the top and pass a mono that's pinching up because they see us coming, and think we can't point. At best VMG, close hauled, I'd guess we're doing 50-55 TWA, but In lighter winds doing pretty much wind speed. Close hauled when it's windy and rough, we reef way down to stay comfortable. If we keep our speed down to 8-9 knots, it rides pretty well going to windward. We just head up to slow down when the big ones come, and head down and get speed in the flat spots.

We don't race, so never really paid that much attention to the numbers. We live aboard, so we don't push the boat. In light wind, we sail over wind speed with main and jib.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Depends, of course on conditions. Good conditions I've set the AP 35 deg AWA. Can pinch higher. We can out point most racing monos, but that doesn't mean that's the best VMG. It's just kind of fun to sail over the top and pass a mono that's pinching up because they see us coming, and think we can't point. At best VMG, close hauled, I'd guess we're doing 50-55 TWA, but In lighter winds doing pretty much wind speed. Close hauled when it's windy and rough, we reef way down to stay comfortable. If we keep our speed down to 8-9 knots, it rides pretty well going to windward. We just head up to slow down when the big ones come, and head down and get speed in the flat spots.

We don't race, so never really paid that much attention to the numbers. We live aboard, so we don't push the boat. In light wind, we sail over wind speed with main and jib.

I used to race on Corsairs and had similar experiences...fun to blow up and over the much more expensive "go fast" boats...we used to make a show of it by reclining on the nets with two fingers on the tiller extension...at 20 knots! Easily meet or exceed TWS in light air.

[Training Wheels]

Yeah, we were originally looking for a cat, but then started racing on a friends corsair........

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Absolutely love our CW tri.

You have one ???? Lucky man you are.... I am still looking for a bigger Trimaran for living on. Kind of CW's 50 footer Tris are very few out there.

Do you have some photos of your Trimaran from outside and inside ? :-)

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Yeah, we were originally looking for a cat, but then started racing on a friends corsair........

How's your CW Tri in rough weather?

Corsairs are a very rough wet ride, but at least its over quick. Did an overnight coastal race on a 31' in moderately rough conditions (mean sea height about 4', short period)...wore full offshore weather gear">foul weather gear, not a drop of rain, but regular heavy spray in the cockpit. Very rough and loud below...impossible to sleep off watch. Still managed speeds in the teens, but made for a ruff ride and some sick crew members.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Long been a fan of Chris White designs. Love his Atlantic Cat series. Makes my knees go weak and breathe funny. But 1.2 million for a new cat is never going to happen without a divorce...smile

Yeah, they get me all hot and bothered too, but that price tag cools me right down!

[Training Wheels]

Yeah, corsairs can be wet boats. Especially when the waves hit the aft crossbeam.

Ours isn't nearly as wet as a Corsair. If say it's quit dry. We do get some spray every now and then, but not bad, especially considering the conditions. Of course, we're not racing. We reef way down going upwind. If We start doing more than 9-10 knots upwind when it's blowing, it can get ugly. We just reef it down and sail flat and relatively comfortably. Our main hull max beam is less than 4', so there's never any pounding. Still, it's a LOT more fun going downwind in those conditions. :-)

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Juniper II is not sold yet. I just spoke with the broker last night and been in communication with the owner almost daily for the last week. You are probably thinking of Chris Whites Juniper.

Thanks guys for all of the comments. It is funny that I forgot about the Dutchman who sailed it many a mile. His story is fun to read and watched his interviews on Youtube. First ran into him on Jim Brown's Outrig.org platform.

Don't know why I was thinking that was not an optimal angle. Been too long on the land.

listed as sold here

Trimaran 1989 Custom Chris White Juniper 2 Trimaran For Sale

different boat or what?

[alansmith]

Highland, yup! That is the correct boat we are speaking of. The funny thing is if you look at where the boat is sitting in that advertisement you will note that it is in Rhode Island. That broker never took it off their listing as sold from 8 years ago. The boat currently sits in Fort Lauderdale. You are looking at a listing from 7-8 years ago.


Heh, I really enjoyed looking at the old pictures...so thanks for that.

[daletournier]

I spent sometime with
Henk de Velde in 2010. I remember him saying a big part of the reason he purchased the Juniper was "most bang for his buck he could buy".

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[alansmith]

Dale, those are my exact feelings also

[steveth3b]

What ever happened to this bite at the line? I'm curious as to why it wasn't finalized, if you don't mind saying. I see the Juniper and II are both up. Carisa dropped $10,000, and the Juniper is at $107K. I'm going to have a look through the posts and see if I can't find a CW owners thread. If not, I'm gonna start one to pick your brains.

[Nicocrispi]

Originally Posted by jdazey

Carissa has the old Juniper unstayed masts/sails. Henck sailed Juniper with the new stayed rig. Different boats. Somewhere in his book on web site, Chris talks about the limitations of the old unstayed rig and the sort of whiplash effect it gave.

I considered Carissa, but having read Chris' account of the unstayed rig, I felt I would need to re-rig the boat to get what I was after. Someone else could easily feel differently. It is a lot of boat for the (asking) money.

I'm sure glad I found your post as I'm very close to making an offer and surveying Carissa. I'm scheduled to go see the boat in a couple of weeks and I've been speaking with the owner who is a nice guy.
This is my thread on Carissa:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ri-188040.html

I have the Chris White book and I'll be staying up tonight reading about her rig. Whiplash effect on those old masts doesn't sound encouraging. I'll be calling CW tomorrow.

[alansmith]

By whiplash do you mean the poles bend and come back to their original position? That is a feature of all unstated masts. That, to me is a wonderful feature. When a mast deflects during a gust it is depowering the sail. That is a wonderful safety feature to my mind. When a trimaran is powering through the water and the lee bow is already under stress... a sudden gust can bury it deeper ... or it can break or crack something ...or it can capsize you if you aren't quick enough on the main sheet to dump it on regular rigs.

I almost bought it over a year ago. I didn't because it is too big of a boat to maintain. Owner is a great guy and the boat is simple and would make a great platform for adventuring. I have a small mono with unsaid twin masts. My masts deflect when a gust hits. Maybe even a foot or so. When the big gust settles back down to regular wind the masts bend less. That is not a whiplash.

Juniper is a perfect big boat. She is big enough to carry all the things necessary for real adventuring. She has one of the best motions through the water you will ever feel. She is plenty fast. Her rig is easy to maintain and drop in a hurry when a squall catches you. Perfect for a singlehanded or couple to use. You don't need crew for this baby to cross oceans.

The power plant is a little small for such a big boat. Trying to dock her in a breeze would be a challenge. There is a lot of bottom to maintain with three hulls. If I was retired I would give it a serious consideration.

But whiplash...not something you will feel in my opinion. You need to study up more about unstaid rigs. They have advantages and disadvantages. Down wind a conventional rig would have a chute up. Have you ever tried to deal with a large chute on a pitching deck by yourself? At night? When a squall springs up? On Juniper you would be running wing and wing. Release the halyard and pull on the down haul or reefing lines. You are good to go. Off the wind this boat can't be beat for speed even by million dollar boats. Upwind she will still be fast. But she won't point as high as a regular staid rig.

So you foot off a little. Cats are similar. Look, this boat is big. Dockage and maintenance are the only two things that cause most sailors to back away from big boats. As far as sailing her ... she is a dream. Good luck with your visit. I think if you get on her you'll have a spell cast on you that will be hard to break. She is something special