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Old 15-10-2013, 06:45   #16
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

The story behind the pic. I posted above.
Lessons Learned on the Beach | Cruising World
Cheers,
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Old 15-10-2013, 06:57   #17
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
That boat is older than the 'xx1' models. That looks like a 1990s Crowther Catana.
Yes and no, it's a 1994 Catana 531, Crowther/Barreau design but its very different to the later Catana XX1/2 eg 471/2, 521/2 etc.
[Essentially a scaled up c48 the latest C531 I know of was a 2001 build.]
It was launched as 'Esprit de Tizza', later renamed as 'Mantra' out of Newport Beach, Cal.
Don't know what it's called now since being sold again.
I feel very sure in saying these models are reinforced for sensible beaching/drying out.
The picture [IMO] is relevant to C48/C48s because of the vintage and design roots.
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Old 15-10-2013, 07:03   #18
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Morwood's (I think), Teles', and my Catanas are 1990s models.

As Morwood elaborated above, "- the 48 is one of the older school Catana's - lighter, finer hulls, but not as much interior space as the new designs like the 431."

the boats are different. I've seen several pix of the 'old school,' what I call 'Crowther' Catanas, beached.

The newer 'xx1' etc models (post-1993, Crowther's death) are redesigned (Christophe Barreau) and are roomier, but heavier, boats and I don't know whether they can be beached. Maybe someone with a newer boat will chime in.

(edit: Wraith and I posted at same time, so I guess the 1994 boats are apparently ok)
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Old 15-10-2013, 07:22   #19
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Morwood's (I think), Teles', and my Catanas are 1990s models.

As Morwood elaborated above, "- the 48 is one of the older school Catana's - lighter, finer hulls, but not as much interior space as the new designs like the 431."

the boats are different. I've seen several pix of the 'old school,' what I call 'Crowther' Catanas, beached.

The newer 'xx1' etc models (post-1993, Crowther's death) are redesigned (Christophe Barreau) and are roomier, but heavier, boats and I don't know whether they can be beached. Maybe someone with a newer boat will chime in.
Crowther's designs were still used by Catana after his death, it was some time before only Christophe Barreau became solely credited as designer.
I don't agree that the C531 is not a Crowther design but it is longer and heavier and can still be beached why wouldn't the 48 be beachable?
The boats are reinforced, check with Chantier Catana, if they don't respond contact Barreau.
Christophe Barreau Architecte Naval
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Old 15-10-2013, 08:11   #20
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Tamicatana,
+1
Mac
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Old 15-10-2013, 09:41   #21
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

I did a search and found an image of a 48 on the hard. I also found a 43 beached. I found another unknown size Catana beached but the pic wouldn't load. So some are beachable.
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Old 15-10-2013, 09:46   #22
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

The boat on the hard is on blocks, not its hulls. The other pic has just the bows on shore - the sterns appear to be in ~4' of water judging by the person standing near them.

Some Catana's came with retractable metal "feet pods" in bows and sterns specifically for beaching. I don't know how well those worked.

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Old 15-10-2013, 10:45   #23
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

I posted the one on the hard to show the how the rocker is almost even with the rudder and the prop looks protected. I guess I should have said that.
I think the stern is shallower than 4' in the 2nd pic but if it wasn't beachable then would you be there?
This is that pic that wouldn't load and it is beached in mud. I wonder if this is one of Catana's first cats?
The news from Multihulls World - Catana
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Old 15-10-2013, 13:01   #24
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

SandCrab,
The one from the article is a early-1990s style (similar to mine, and also similar to the leftmost picture in your post #21). I think it's a 39S in the picture?

The rightmost picture in your earlier post (post 21) is a Barreau design.

Crowther died in 1993. Christophe Barreau began his association after Crowther's death, and the designs began to change.

It appears to me there are two Crowther Catana generations of design pre-1993. I've seen a Catana that is older than mine (which is a 1993) and it's a fair bit different.

There's just not a lot of info on the older Catanas out there, dang it

Here's some pics:
my boat, a 1993 40S, I believe 2d gen Crowther:


This is a 411, I think it's a 1999? Definitely Barreau


Newer Catanas, Barreau:
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Old 15-10-2013, 18:40   #25
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Tamicatana,
I believe that Crowther and Barreau worked together at Catana ie. collaborated on designs.
For example Crowther's design 106 is always quoted as a collaboration between him and Barreau.
Crowther's influence was significant and obviously after his death Barreau became the 'senior' designer and his own ideas became pre-eminent. The 471 type as you've illustrated.
Well before Crowther's death, models were planned for production so his clear influence lived on for a while producing a period of blurred transition of influence.
I wouldn't call the blue boat as 'definitely Barreau', I see more Crowther but that's an 'eye of the beholder' thing I guess.
If the hulls are canted and the bows tuliped, that's still Crowther influence.
Here's a link to a boat built to design 106 that Crowther used for Catanas.
MultiMarket - Catana
Here's a link to some study plans, look at the hull similarities to Catana.
Lock Crowther Study Plans
Lastly, I thought you might like these pics.
Cheers Mate
Mac.
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Old 15-10-2013, 22:25   #26
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

So cats that have been designed to be beached on space rudders can be done so regularly, rather than just every now and then for cleaning? And this applies to a C48? I am still not sure I would feel comfortable. What if I am a dried up at Moreton Sandhills and a big westerly blows up overnight and there are 3 foot sees heading up the beach?

Super shallow draft and beachability go hand in hand. If I have a hull draft of 1.5' compared to a rudder draft of 3 feet the size of the possible waves will be small enough at the point of floating with the 1.5 draft that it should not be a prob. With the 3' rudder draft. The waves will be much bigger at the point where the boat starts to float and the boat will be yawing around on the rudders. To me it would probably turn me off beaching in many circumstances just for the fun of it as might not feel comfortable. Also navigating across a shallow reef with the lowest point being the rudders is also a bit scary.

All my favorite cruising locations from before I purchased a fixed keel yacht were areas where we would dry out. You could go to the whitsundays and have your own place totally away from other boats in high season. I totally miss this aspect of cruising with my current boat. So many more areas to put your boat safely when there is a cyclone warning etc too. It could be the difference to loosing your boat or not.

On my recent Pacific crossing beachability would not have been a concern but here in AU its great. Plus on my planned circumnavigation it will come in very handy in many places.

Here is a related thread anyway Do Cat Owners Actually Beach Their Cats ?

This is what I am talking about. Pic courtesy of 44c



This is one of my old boats on a favorite local spot not long before it will be high and dry.

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Old 15-10-2013, 23:24   #27
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Certainly the sandhills as a lee shore is not somewhere to have your boat on the hard if it has spade rudders, even if designed to take the bottom. I think you are definately looking toward a boat with boards and kick up rudders. Maybe a Kerr or Easton aluminium? Tough boats and sail reasonably?
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Old 15-10-2013, 23:54   #28
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

Seems many custom boats have what I want and there are not many prod boats that have kick up rudders. Its not like I would put myself in a situation like the sandhills on a leeshore, but these things can happen.

These 2 boats are good performers and have kickup rudders, daggers and are fully beachable.

Oram 52 - Farrier 44

For diesels shaft drive appears to be a better choice with daggers and kickups as the shaft drive setup with not impose on draft like saildrives. I prefer the maintenance aspect of shaft drive anyway.
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Old 16-10-2013, 03:41   #29
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

This kind of lee shore? there was apparently no damage of note to the cat.

"Whoops! Three crew on board could not stop their catamaran Dazzla from beaching in a very embarrassing way in Force 7 (32-38kts) conditions last weekend. The story has a good end though, as catamarans, practised at beaching for picnics, are easier to 'de-beach' than a conventional yacht.


Dazzla finally towed back to sea after the firing of a rocket to get a tow line to her - .. .
The yacht's anchor had dragged in the high winds and lurched its way through the heavy breaking surf to end up on the beach outside Benbridge Harbour on Britain's Isle of Wight.

The rescue was quite ingenious. Dazzla was in too shallow water for the lifeboat to pass a tow so a rocket line was fired from about 80 metres away.

Once a tow line was attached, Dazzla was pulled from the beach to deeper water in the harbour channel, then towed into Bembridge Harbour. The operation lasted about one-and-a-half hours.

However the lifeboat crew were very late for supper that night. The lifeboat was forced to seek a berth in Portsmouth harbour until 10pm because weather was too severe for it to return to the lifeboat
25/09/12"
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Old 16-10-2013, 03:47   #30
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Re: Catana 48 Advice / Feedback

As mentioned about tides earlier, here's how not to do it. Scroll to Stories 2 & 3.
Catamaran | SailorsTales
The positive take, is that there's no damage to the Catana's rudders.
Cheers,
Mac
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