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Old 26-02-2016, 12:52   #46
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Crazy to attempt night crossing in big swells. Not the first to have come to grief in the same situation. The Wide Bay Bar is a cat killer, for sure.
FFS, far more mono's than cat's have been lost on the bar. (Because more mono's cross it) Wake up to reality.
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Old 26-02-2016, 12:57   #47
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
I am of another opinion. People who decide to go to sea in obviously unseaworthy vessels should not be rescued. They should be left to their fate.

Paul
Who decides what's unseaworthy? Who decides what behavior is careless??

Everyone has a different definition of "Careless". And trust me, you and I are worlds apart on the dividing line between "smart" and "stupid". What you and I judge as "seaworthy" are likely to be pretty far apart, as well. This is why choosing who can be rescued and who can't is a bit of a slippery slope.

Personally I can't believe people take their families out on motorboats and they don't understand how an engine works. Hell, I use math all the time to try and keep things safe + sound for my family, yet a lot of folks out there have the math skills of a child. Should they be denied rescue, since they are going off to sea with preparation I *personally* feel is inadequate? No, that's absurd.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:02   #48
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Wide Bay Bar is tricky. Its long... really long... about a mile and then there's a dog leg, or there was when I went through.

The point of no return is probably well before you realise you are in deep ****: hard to turn around and you are just drawn into a vortex.
This is essentially what makes WBB dangerous. The length of time you're exposed to the swell.

Most bar crossings, you can sprint over them in a break between waves, but not the WBB.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:04   #49
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Is the catamaran in question the Ocean Sports 11 "Barefoot" designed by Tony Grainger?

Sorry if this has already been posted but reading the tedious bickering was too painful.

Sailed by two Highly skilled multihull sailors from Cairns?

Barefoot certainly doesn't lack sail area.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:11   #50
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
FFS, far more mono's than cat's have been lost on the bar. (Because more mono's cross it) Wake up to reality.
Give it a rest. I ain't anti catamaran.

Sheesh (again).

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Old 26-02-2016, 13:11   #51
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Talking about this incident over dinner last night. One of those at the table had been in over WBB at night, in settled conditions, and when the waypoints were correct. I had said I would not attempt it at night, because friends have come to grief there.

For the people out there who are not familiar with it, the Tin Can Bay Coast Guard, which is, as described above, a volunteer service, supported by donations, are able in daylight hours to give the mariner, upon request, waypoints, that they can follow, to lead them in safely.

However, the bar (the deposition of sand outside the river mouth) is shifty. It changes every year. And the Ministry of Transport who are tasked with surveying it after events, like the surges expected due to ex T.C. Winston, only have funding to do it once a year. So it is an imperfect situation, and its changeability is just part of nature! Pretty soon, one of the fishing boats will go out, and radio back to the TCBCG what the waypoints were where he turned, and then, without giving the fisherman's waypoints, will give you instructions like "using last years Waypoints, on the northbound leg, you need to continue about 100 meters north before heading for the next waypoint." You can easily understand why some people prefer to enter near the morning high water, with the sun at your back.

There's a lot about this event we'll never know, but the men are safe, and with luck, the cat will be reparable.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:19   #52
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Is there an alternative route for shallow draft vessels?
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:29   #53
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Give it a rest. I ain't anti catamaran.

Sheesh (again).

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So why make idiotic statements?

The WBB isn't a "cat killer". It isn't a "mono killer" either. It's simply a bar crossing. If you get it wrong, or you're unlucky, you can get into trouble, no matter what boat you're in.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:31   #54
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Is there an alternative route for shallow draft vessels?
Yes, but it's even more dodgy than the "official" route. Shorter crossing, but very shallow.


This is where a cat pitchpoled several years ago. (Reportedly the bows hit bottom)


I'm inclined to suspect this incident may have happened here too.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:32   #55
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
I am of another opinion. People who decide to go to sea in obviously unseaworthy vessels should not be rescued. They should be left to their fate.

Paul
Better take that one step further; A person needing rescue is obviously unprepared or on an unseaworthy boat, so there should be no need for rescue services at all.
"I think we can lower our taxes on the people as we are providing less services" said no government ever.

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Old 26-02-2016, 13:38   #56
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Re the timing of this event relative to the tidal state:

There is a considerable lag in the turn of the flow beyond high and low water. That is, it continues to flow inward for some while after high water. IMO, it sounds like their timing was all right ie, not ebbing yet into the swell.

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Old 26-02-2016, 13:39   #57
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Better take that one step further; A person needing rescue is obviously unprepared or on an unseaworthy boat, so there should be no need for rescue services at all.
"I think we can lower our taxes on the people as we are providing less services" said no government ever.

goat
But why stop at one step?

Surely anyone who gets lost hiking wasn't properly prepared? No need to rescue them.

Anyone caught in a house fire was surely negligent in allowing their house to contain flammable materials?

etc etc.

Having said that, I wouldn't cross Wide Bay Bar at night. There's an OK anchorage at Double Island point not far away, where you can wait for daylight.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:41   #58
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
So why make idiotic statements?

The WBB isn't a "cat killer". It isn't a "mono killer" either. It's simply a bar crossing. If you get it wrong, or you're unlucky, you can get into trouble, no matter what boat you're in.
The topic refers to a catamaran. I obviously blundered into an area where people get easily butt hurt. Sorry about that, champ.

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Old 26-02-2016, 13:44   #59
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

You obviously just ran your mouth off, without any knowledge. You should be apologetic for it. Champ.
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Old 26-02-2016, 13:46   #60
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

double post.
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