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Old 02-02-2012, 15:12   #16
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

I'm rereading your post, and I'm thinking that you might want to consider doing charters on at least one, if not various, cats.

Having been "VERY experienced, intuitive, lifelong sailor. He has always sailed monohulls" I am quite sure that you will be surprised at the similarities, and at the differences.

I have myself sailed a Fontaine-Pajot Mahé 36 fairly close to weather, I believe it was in the 40 degree range, but then I have always been in multihulls and I do race. That said, one can sail a mini-keel type multihull fairly high, it's more a matter of technique. And tolerance, the motion is verrrrrry different.

TMM and Conch have FP and Leopard cats, Dream Yacht Charters has Catana. There may be others, I offer those with which I'm familiar.
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:15   #17
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Not to hijack a thread, but why is sailing upwind all that important? I know of course, to get to where you want to go faster... but really? What will be the difference in time between one that points well and one that doesn't in time to station?

And not to be rude, but don't hijack my thread, because that is so often what happens on CF and then you never accomplish what you set out to do. And, I am not an accomplished sailor ... but this would be my response. And I will phrase it in the form of a question, so someone with more experience can answer. But, then let's stay on track, please?

Don't you have to point well to stay on course? Without your daggerboards, don't you slide across the water? We would not sail upwind (an sometimes you have no choice) in our Tartan without our daggerboard down. I assume the same for your Columbia? Thanks!

Darby
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:17   #18
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

I've never understood the love affair you guys have with Catana. The outboard helms completely eliminate it from my radar. In addition, when looking at cats under $200k, the field gets very narrow. Outreamer would be my choice.

For the OP, you might do a cost analysis of how much each upwind mile is going to cost you and if it's worth it. And, if your hubby's a true purist, it won't matter anyway because you'll get a mono in the end.
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:21   #19
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Don't you have to point well to stay on course? Without your daggerboards, don't you slide across the water?
Well, the concept you describe is VMG. And VMG is a balance.

You can, for instance, drive off a few degrees, and if your speed increases by a certain amount, even though you go farther, you can still be ahead of the game because you go faster.

One of the differences between multihull and monohull tactics is this very concept. Monohulls tend to pinch and cover less ground because they can't go fast enough to afford the extra distance. The expression is 'banging the corner,' and it's not done. On the other hand, multihulls bang the corners all the time, but it's a trick to know just how far off you can go.

That is to say, 'if I drive off x degrees, I need to go y faster or it's not worth it.' X and Y depend on the particular boat in question, and the conditions one is sailing in, etcetera.

Hope this helps
t.
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:22   #20
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Originally Posted by tamif27 View Post
I'm rereading your post, and I'm thinking that you might want to consider doing charters on at least one, if not various, cats.

Having been "VERY experienced, intuitive, lifelong sailor. He has always sailed monohulls" I am quite sure that you will be surprised at the similarities, and at the differences.

I have myself sailed a Fontaine-Pajot Mahé 36 fairly close to weather, I believe it was in the 40 degree range, but then I have always been in multihulls and I do race. That said, one can sail a mini-keel type multihull fairly high, it's more a matter of technique. And tolerance, the motion is verrrrrry different.

TMM and Conch have FP and Leopard cats, Dream Yacht Charters has Catana. There may be others, I offer those with which I'm familiar.
Thank you. That is a great idea. We were considering a bareboat charter this summer for the very reasons you suggest. Also, I tend to get sea sick on monohulls, I'm usually okay after the first day, but I am not very comfortable below deck. I think I may be better on a cat. That is why I have a thread posted taking survey responses from those who've sailed both.

Also, we have three adult sons 6'0 - 6"4 and their mates and we hope to have grandbabies some day!!! It would be nice to have more room for family trips.

Thank you,
Darby
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:27   #21
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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I've never understood the love affair you guys have with Catana. The outboard helms completely eliminate it from my radar. In addition, when looking at cats under $200k, the field gets very narrow. Outreamer would be my choice.

For the OP, you might do a cost analysis of how much each upwind mile is going to cost you and if it's worth it. And, if your hubby's a true purist, it won't matter anyway because you'll get a mono in the end.
Funny, but ..... "If the momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy." LOL

Thanks for sharing about Outreamer .... a couple of others have suggested the same. I just became familiar with them about two days ago. I have started researching them. Again, I am the novice sailor, so I will have to have the upwind discussion with my captain

Warmly,
Darby
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:27   #22
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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And not to be rude, but don't hijack my thread, because that is so often what happens on CF and then you never accomplish what you set out to do. And, I am not an accomplished sailor ... but this would be my response. And I will phrase it in the form of a question, so someone with more experience can answer. But, then let's stay on track, please?

Don't you have to point well to stay on course? NO Without your daggerboards, don't you slide across the water? YES, UNLESS YOU HAVE MINI KEELS We would not sail upwind (an sometimes you have no choice) in our Tartan without our daggerboard down. I assume the same for your Columbia? Thanks!

Darby
Hijacking and drifting doesn't often happen on CF, it ALWAYS happens.

As far as pointing, the real objective is VMG which is a function of speed and course. If you read some of the threads in the multihull forum, I think the most that daggerboards will add is 5 degrees, which is a lot crossing an ocean but not so on a 100 mile overnighter.
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:29   #23
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

Upwind, Blue water and Catamaran are not words that should be used in the same sentence.

I once owned a 42ft cat, took it out on the ocean in some very rough weather and it the the s**t out of me. And this from a delivery skipper who has crossed the Atlantic over 30 times in everything from 22ft to 90ft solo and with crew. The last big blow was 4 days of a hurricane off the Grand Banks. 150 knots of wind, 60ft waves. If I had been in a catamaran I wouldn't be typing this today
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:31   #24
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Also, I tend to get sea sick on monohulls, I'm usually okay after the first day, but I am not very comfortable below deck
You're welcome.

For my part, I find that monohulls roll, loll about. They pitch, yaw, and roll. To me, cats really just pitch, but the motion is far more abrupt, described as 'hobby-horsing.' (sometimes that's a problem with poor boat loading/overloading). Dedicated monohullers describe it as 'jerky.'

I think I answered your other comparison post, but I'll say again that my only real green experience was aboard a monohulled craft, knock wood I've never greened out on a multihull.

edit: Hey George: couple of books for ya: "ADRIFT" and "ROSE-NOELLE."
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:35   #25
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Upwind, Blue water and Catamaran are not words that should be used in the same sentence.
Seriously. LONTFLMAO
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:38   #26
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Originally Posted by George Hoskins View Post
Upwind, Blue water and Catamaran are not words that should be used in the same sentence.

I once owned a 42ft cat, took it out on the ocean in some very rough weather and it the the s**t out of me. And this from a delivery skipper who has crossed the Atlantic over 30 times in everything from 22ft to 90ft solo and with crew. The last big blow was 4 days of a hurricane off the Grand Banks. 150 knots of wind, 60ft waves. If I had been in a catamaran I wouldn't be typing this today
Cruising Couple, this is where the drift come in.

George, if you made 30 Atlantic crossings how in the hell did you get caught in a Cat 5 hurricane? Dude, you are a true Rock Star of sailing. Also, Upwind, Blue water, and Catamaran absolutely can be used in the same sentence as long as remove the word budget.
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:53   #27
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Hijacking and drifting doesn't often happen on CF, it ALWAYS happens.
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Cruising Couple, this is where the drift come in.

Going ..... Going ..... Gone LOL

VMG. Got it. Apparently, this is my husband concern for having a cat that can sail upwing, as he wants to wants to circumnavigate just as his parents did for 11 years.

Thanks guys!
Darby
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Old 02-02-2012, 15:54   #28
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

......husband's concern for having a cat that can sail upwind......
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Old 02-02-2012, 16:09   #29
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

someone should have told all those Polynesians for 3,000 odd years that their boats wouldn't navigate oceans.

Darby, here's a guy who circumnavigated in a boardless cat...Rory and 'Cooking Fat'
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Old 02-02-2012, 16:12   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hoskins
Upwind, Blue water and Catamaran are not words that should be used in the same sentence.

I once owned a 42ft cat, took it out on the ocean in some very rough weather and it the the s**t out of me. And this from a delivery skipper who has crossed the Atlantic over 30 times in everything from 22ft to 90ft solo and with crew. The last big blow was 4 days of a hurricane off the Grand Banks. 150 knots of wind, 60ft waves. If I had been in a catamaran I wouldn't be typing this today
Hmmmm never heard of a cat 5 hurricane of the Grand Banks..... ever. Maybe I'm wrong.
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