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Old 19-03-2014, 16:53   #1396
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
you can not steer worth **** and are completely off any crew list!
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Old 19-03-2014, 17:05   #1397
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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you can not steer worth **** and are completely off any crew list!
I don't know about that: if he could steer that course under sail I think he is a miraculous helmsman

Greg
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Old 19-03-2014, 17:17   #1398
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

letsgetsailing3

If you don't think the comments on CF did not affect Boatie's outcome, then you must think the owner was not swayed by them.



I say that because the owner's decision most certainly did affect Boatie's outcome, as he has explained.

(by effectively putting him in a position where he could not realistically refuse a tow, because the owner had already committed to pay for it)

The reasons I say crossing oceans must not become a spectator sport arise from this inevitable fact: inferences drawn by the crowd will always be wide of the mark.

In this case, the boat was not (as the data suggested) limping along at a rate which made it vulnerable to currents and storms; it was making good progress whenever the skipper wanted it to, or needed it to.

That's admittedly an extreme example, but an offshore skipper does NOT need the added distraction of wondering whether his or her actions will SEEM to be the right thing to others who will never have adequate information (and almost never, sufficient knowledge and judgement) to assess. That's bad enough when there is only one person playing that potentially toxic tango: the owner at the far end.

And the potential to be second-guessed is MUCH higher for a delivery skipper, who is faced with a virtually infinite selection of "known unknowns", and more than a handful of "unknown unknowns" during the day or two s/he has to get acquainted and get clear.

It's beyond reason to apply the ethos of an owner/skipper to the vastly different challenges of delivery skippers.

There is a long and honourable tradition of learning from the mistakes of others, but here it goes further: here we are learning from (largely) conjectured or imagined mistakes .

I don't think I'm in any position to say what were mistakes, and what were not, but offhand I can think of only two which might fall firmly in that camp:

1) Putting up a SPOT link on a public forum

2) Not sorting out what the available escalation levels of SPOT message would indicate, and (most importantly) not communicating that, with absolute unambiguous clarity (as far as is ever possible in advance) to his SPOT intimate contact(s)

I have been put in that position by a close relative, who (when I explained my misgivings) insisted that there was not time to think it through and provide that clarity.

So (had things gone tits up) I'd have ended up stuck in a horrible position: trying to make important and consequential decisions based on untrustworthy data.
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Old 19-03-2014, 17:36   #1399
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I'm in favour of all Boatie's trips being spectator sports !! A lot of priceless fun and I'm sure navigator B61 can handle the interference.

PS Did you note Salty's hilarious response was posted only 4 minutes after the previous post. He's quick.
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Old 19-03-2014, 17:44   #1400
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I have but one question for ya Boaty -

Loving or hating the thread-monster you created?
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Old 19-03-2014, 17:48   #1401
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
letsgetsailing3

If you don't think the comments on CF did not affect Boatie's outcome, then you must think the owner was not swayed by them.



I say that because the owner's decision most certainly did affect Boatie's outcome, as he has explained.

(by effectively putting him in a position where he could not realistically refuse a tow, because the owner had already committed to pay for it)

The reasons I say crossing oceans must not become a spectator sport arise from this inevitable fact: inferences drawn by the crowd will always be wide of the mark.

In this case, the boat was not (as the data suggested) limping along at a rate which made it vulnerable to currents and storms; it was making good progress whenever the skipper wanted it to, or needed it to.

That's admittedly an extreme example, but an offshore skipper does NOT need the added distraction of wondering whether his or her actions will SEEM to be the right thing to others who will never have adequate information (and almost never, sufficient knowledge and judgement) to assess. That's bad enough when there is only one person playing that potentially toxic tango: the owner at the far end.

And the potential to be second-guessed is MUCH higher for a delivery skipper, who is faced with a virtually infinite selection of "known unknowns", and more than a handful of "unknown unknowns" during the day or two s/he has to get acquainted and get clear.

It's beyond reason to apply the ethos of an owner/skipper to the vastly different challenges of delivery skippers.

There is a long and honourable tradition of learning from the mistakes of others, but here it goes further: here we are learning from (largely) conjectured or imagined mistakes .

I don't think I'm in any position to say what were mistakes, and what were not, but offhand I can think of only two which might fall firmly in that camp:

1) Putting up a SPOT link on a public forum

2) Not sorting out what the available escalation levels of SPOT message would indicate, and (most importantly) not communicating that, with absolute unambiguous clarity (as far as is ever possible in advance) to his SPOT intimate contact(s)

I have been put in that position by a close relative, who (when I explained my misgivings) insisted that there was not time to think it through and provide that clarity.

So (had things gone tits up) I'd have ended up stuck in a horrible position: trying to make important and consequential decisions based on untrustworthy data.
very astute analaysis andrew thank you!

now how can we use your and others take on SPOT to get SPOT to pay for the tow for all the R and D we have done on their behalf
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Old 19-03-2014, 18:03   #1402
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Hmm, atoll, nice idea,

More likely, it seems to me, is that SPOT will find ways to monetise the entertainment value (gagging noises offstage left) their equipment evidently provides on forums like this.

As in other professional sports, each gladiator can potentially 'service' thousands of couch potatoes -- sorry ... "devoted fans"

Devoted, in many cases, only until their idols turn out to be human...


I'm couching a serious message in a humorous guise, which might not be the smartest thing to do.

I say that because would hate this forum to become more devoted than it already is to rebranding sailing as a spectator activity.
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Old 19-03-2014, 18:13   #1403
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Old 19-03-2014, 18:34   #1404
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
very astute analaysis andrew thank you!



now how can we use your and others take on SPOT to get SPOT to pay for the tow for all the R and D we have done on their behalf

I like the simplicity and potential versatility of Spot. Better than an Epirb in many ways.

I am not sure how to word the pitch for the sponsoring idea to Spot.

Maybe a reality tracking show to continue in all his ports of call. If the reaction seen in this thread was allowed to expand he would need to stay at sea to avoid groupies and jealous husbands.

Hard to hide with that damn Spot in your pocket.
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Old 19-03-2014, 18:56   #1405
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Hard to hide with that damn Spot in your pocket.
Boatie....Is that a Spot in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
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Old 19-03-2014, 19:02   #1406
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
......

I for one was glad that Boaty shared his adventure with us. Lets face it, how many of us would want to be placed under the microscope of CF in similar circumstances? In exchange I would like to think that we would give him (or anyone ) the benefit of the doubt, or at least a reasonable opportunity to explain himself prior to going on the offensive.

Brad
Well posted Brad

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you can not steer worth **** and are completely off any crew list!
As another has posted, SM is clearly a hot helmsman
.
.
.
.
Boatie, it is clear to me that will not be needing ya SPOT for the next leg so to help out with ya finances, I will take it off ya hands for a few bob.

Think of the peace and quiet ya will get - you know it's good deal so just pop into the post right now - I'll even have a word on the QT with ya Port Captain to sweeten the deal.
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Old 19-03-2014, 20:04   #1407
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Good on you boaty, I'm glad you made it in okay. Tell the second guessers to get stuffed!
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Old 19-03-2014, 20:08   #1408
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I am a newby and have been following this adventure - the following websites have been recommended for watching weather and wind globally:
http://www.offshoreblue.com/navigation/pilot-charts.php NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
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Old 19-03-2014, 20:19   #1409
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Good on you boaty, I'm glad you made it in okay. Tell the second guessers to get stuffed!

Seconded.

It is sad that what started as a welcome gesture of concern for a obviously skilled seaman is being mistaken for an invitation for ridiculous criticism and speculation.

Well done skipper and fair winds in your journey.
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Old 19-03-2014, 22:44   #1410
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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As I posted before, I do hope for full "Atlantic test of Lagoon 440" report from Boatman.
But there are a lot of reasons for Phil to publish it here (if he wish, of course) in some time after finishing delivery. He will not have enough time before, anyway.

I hope for this, as occasion is really unique. Boatman is experienced sailor, not personally biased and without any connections to the manufacturer, distributor and so on.

I just do not believe opinions from the tests in sail magazines any longer.
You can not expect objective and critical report from somebody financially dependent on manufacturer.
I am very much looking forward to such a report as well, for the very same reasons.
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