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Old 19-03-2014, 07:06   #1366
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post

I would really like to hear what you think of the Lagoon that you sailed on this delivery. Not all the stuff everyone is talking about but about the boat itself, how it sails,how it goes to weather and just your general impression. What would you like to see different in the design/systems/build that sort of thing. If you have the time of course. Cheers, R

Would you want to publicly critique your customer or his vessel?

Before getting paid?

How would future customers view this?
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:10   #1367
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pirate Re: Atlantic Delivery

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
You crabs and your chafe!

I thought you were tougher than that...
Well, sure, when I'm in my hard shell phase. (Like now, ladies.)

Soft?, I'm more like a bare baby's butt.

Plus, be fair, Capt Sand Crab has the sand to contend with. We've all BTDT, I'd wager.
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:17   #1368
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Good point on the critique but he doesn't have to beat on it or blow stars up *****. I find the yachting mags do a pretty good job of stepping on shoes without ruining the shine. But thinking about your idea, you do make a point.
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:21   #1369
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Once you have admitted such a thing you would think that others would find it a waste of time continue pounding on you.

But I bet it doesn't stop it.
I haven't seen anyone on here pounding on Boatie at all, but I guess that depends on how thin you think his skin is.

In a former life I was a USAF fighter pilot and one thing I grew to really enjoy and appreciate were the brutally honest debriefs after every single sortie. Everyone in the flight (usually 2 or 4) would sit down and discuss (in detail) everything that had happened and why. Everybody was assumed to be a big boy and had an equal BS flag to throw whenever he deemed it appropriate and nobody was exempt from being critiqued, and because of this, everybody learned from everyone else's errors or things they had overlooked or might have seemed right but in retrospect would do differently. This worked because we all knew ahead of time that none of us would finish that day (every day) without making a mistake so nobody got their panties in a twist and once the debriefing was over, it was really over except for possibly further discussion about how to implement lessons learned.

Boatie is a very experienced and capable delivery skipper and I'm pretty sure he doesn't need a cheerleading section of sycophants to prop him up. He doesn't think he's perfect or incapable of error so why should we? For example, in an earlier post he mentioned that he should have brought along more bottled water and I'd agree with that. That's just one little thing that, overlooked during his preparations, apparently caused him some "digestive discomfort" and probably affected the attention he could pay to other issues aboard and ultimately could have forced a change to his routing and/or destination. That's why I think that it's a good thing for those reading this thread to file away and make sure they don't do the same thing. Something as simple and as easily avoided as lack of water gradually becomes a huge priority that affects everything else. In an earlier post, I mentioned myself leaving the Bahamas with LOTS of dead and live microorganisms in my fuel tank which only became an issue once the weather turned bad, so my failure to check that or polish the fuel before departing caused me lots of problems and greatly added to my workload at a time when I had plenty of other things to attend to. I don't think we should discuss Boatie's lack of water or my lack of checking my fuel to disparage or "beat on" either one of us, but rather because it might cause some reader to say to themself "maybe I better be sure to check on that and get it made right if necessary" before setting out on a passage. Otherwise, what's the point in discussing any of this?
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:24   #1370
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

As I posted before, I do hope for full "Atlantic test of Lagoon 440" report from Boatman.
But there are a lot of reasons for Phil to publish it here (if he wish, of course) in some time after finishing delivery. He will not have enough time before, anyway.

I hope for this, as occasion is really unique. Boatman is experienced sailor, not personally biased and without any connections to the manufacturer, distributor and so on.

I just do not believe opinions from the tests in sail magazines any longer.
You can not expect objective and critical report from somebody financially dependent on manufacturer.
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:36   #1371

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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Otherwise, what's the point in discussing any of this?
There isn't a point. Its a vicious circle.

Remember the water, you forget the fuel.
Remember the fuel, you forget the rig.
Remember the rig, you forget the water.
Remember the water, you forget the weather.
Remember the weather, you forget the battery.

"Go light into the field" = the mind.

How about the successes? The striking one I remember is watching his S-curve around the weather heading south. I was convinced he had weather information coming in, but he didn't.
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:54   #1372
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I visualize Boatman sitting back having a "sip or two" and laughing at this crowd....How many, under the circumstances would have performed as successfully as he did. I have no doubts, as others have stated, that Boatman would have let the Geona bring him up to the entrance of Horta before he needed assistance...he revised has plan and it was working for hat is of to ya Boatman....Good Job....

Life is good if you keepa Smilin .....
enjoy the winds for they are free

S/V Water Wings
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:55   #1373
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Sorry guys, but I'm outa' here....(unsubscribing)
Wish you all Fair winds...

And Phil, thanks for the all the details and fair winds on your way to Spain!

s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 19-03-2014, 08:55   #1374
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
How about the successes? The striking one I remember is watching his S-curve around the weather heading south. I was convinced he had weather information coming in, but he didn't.
Ya I'm still flabbergasted over that one. Would love to learn the old ways of the force. Boaty are you offering classes on enhancing your psychic ability to forecast the weather. I'd sign up for that in a heart beat but I can only pay you in beer. Hope that's ok.
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Old 19-03-2014, 09:12   #1375
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I am not suggesting that Boaty is, or would ever see himself as perfect, thin-skinned or immune to criticism. Indeed, read his posts and one can readily see that he is self-effacing in the extreme!

Nor am I suggesting that no lessons can be learned from this delivery. What bothers me is that some of those who were the most directly critical of him and his approach did not first ask him first if there was anything he would have done differently. Any lessons that he has learned. Afterall, he was there and we were not.

Perhaps they should have first asked if he thought he could have arranged a shake-down cruise prior to departure and if not, why not. Perhaps they might have first asked what, if any efforts were made to start the diesels. Perhaps they may have first asked why he accepted the tow prior to criticizing him for taking it (and his ultimate answer above gives more than ample reason). Just saying....

I for one was glad that Boaty shared his adventure with us. Lets face it, how many of us would want to be placed under the microscope of CF in similar circumstances? In exchange I would like to think that we would give him (or anyone ) the benefit of the doubt, or at least a reasonable opportunity to explain himself prior to going on the offensive.

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Old 19-03-2014, 09:17   #1376
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Great comments Brad......If I knew how to make the "thumbs up" icon I would....
enjoy the winds for they are free

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Old 19-03-2014, 09:19   #1377
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Hi Boaty, bieng one who has never sailed out of sight of land i am not qualified to critisize only comment.. I see you sailing a boat with several problems but you were totally confident in getting yourself home with no tow. But you also saw the problem with the water and called someone for help.

Perfect job on your part.

My hat is off to you!! Well done.


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Old 19-03-2014, 09:23   #1378
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I'm not sure of the point of a shake-down cruise in this case. Sure you get out hopefully find problems, fix them and the set off for real. However if you set-off without a shakedown and then find a problem, then you can always turn around and go back to the nearest port.

If it was a race, a shakedown is necessary and so too if you don't want to face the embarrassment of returning to port.

From boaty's description of when problems started occurring, it seems unlikely that a shakedown cruise would have achieved nothing more than wasting his time.
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Old 19-03-2014, 09:30   #1379
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Wow. I haven't been following this.

Is there a summary somewhere? If so, please direct me to the right page!



Nevermind. I was able to hop through and get the jist of it. Very interesting.
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Old 19-03-2014, 09:56   #1380
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

lots of posters here must be getting a sore arse from all the couch sailing they have been doing
That's because it's been such a long, cold winter and the rest of us have to stay inside to keep warm. This forum will be a lot quieter if spring ever arrives.
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