35' cat for ocean crossing?

[ZULU40]

A lot of old designs in this category, it seems to be uneconomic to relive these designs as new boats. Sad that

One personal pick of mine not mentioned would be Comanche 32 by Sailcraft.
A modernised version of this boat would be very interesting for me.

[smj]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

A lot of old designs in this category, it seems to be uneconomic to relive these designs as new boats. Sad that

One personal pick of mine not mentioned would be Comanche 32 by Sailcraft.
A modernised version of this boat would be very interesting for me.

Those are really nice boats. We met a British couple in the early nineties that were part way into a circumnavigation on their Comanche named Buster. From what I've heard, it took them 11 years but they completed their circumnavigation!

[weavis]

Originally Posted by smj

Those are really nice boats. We met a British couple in the early nineties that were part way into a circumnavigation on their Comanche named Buster. From what I've heard, it took them 11 years but they completed their circumnavigation!

11 years is too soon!

What a fantastic journey. Stopping where and when they wanted.


The older Cats, although a touch dated in appearance, are as strong and solid and fit as a Butchers dog. Go anywhere and hustle their way through. Loads of plodding Stamina and reliable.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by 1hullgoodtwohul

Hi,

My wife and I had a Woods/Palamos Banshee 35 and sailed across the Pacific without any problems, easy to sail (easier than a Monohull of that size), good passage times and plenty of space. We now have two children and looking back, having them onboard a Cat of that size would be no problem (providing you choose the right Cat) We now have a Maldives 32 and whilst there is less space than the Banshee, I still think there is room for extended cruising on her, I think it is all about what you are used to! Looking at your budget, don't blow it all on the boat, buy the smallest you are comfortable with (but 32' as a min) and spend the rest exploring!. Our website has gone now but our blog is still on the Mailasail Website if you are interested (RAHULA).

Am enjoying reading your blog. Any plans to continue ?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

A lot of old designs in this category, it seems to be uneconomic to relive these designs as new boats. Sad that

with the FP Mahe being discontinued there are very few options left in the +-35 ft range.
The Broadblue 345 or the Aventura 33

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by rabbi

with the FP Mahe being discontinued there are very few options left in the +-35 ft range.
The Broadblue 345 or the Aventura 33

Mahe are very expensive for a 36ft boat
I think thats why this category is now rare, even though when it began it was the backbone of cruising cats.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

Mahe are very expensive for a 36ft boat
I think thats why this category is now rare, even though when it began it was the backbone of cruising cats.

I think it's a lot like the small pickups that are dying off.

Back when I bought my first car, I went with small pickup because it was the same cost as a compact car. Over time, they tried to match the full size pickups in terms of capability and bells & whistles to the point that for a small cost upgrade, you can just get the full size pickup.

I see a similar pattern with cats. Our boat was $95k new in 1995. The new ones are pushing $250k. Yes, 20yrs of inflation explains some of it but that's far more than inflation. At that price, I think a lot of people get drawn up to larger boats for a little bit more.

[rabbi]

Well Mahes are still cheaper than the Lagoon 380 which is the cat model with the second most units sold in the world. So the pricing can't be such an issue. Maybe the profit margin was just too small.


The latest base price I have for the Mahe is 184k Euro. The new entry level at Fountaine Pajot will be a 39/40ft cat with a base price of 248k Euro. That's 35% more. Minimum equipment packs and all options are also more expensive for a 40ft cat than for a 36ft. This is to me not a small cost to upgrade.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I see a similar pattern with cats. Our boat was $95k new in 1995. The new ones are pushing $250k. Yes, 20yrs of inflation explains some of it but that's far more than inflation. At that price, I think a lot of people get drawn up to larger boats for a little bit more.

Electronics aside, theyre quite a basic fitout, with a tiny galley-up and simple lounge. 3 double berths that socket onto the ends of the hulls and so only display one end, and a head in the remaining other. They dont make much utility out of the centres of the hulls.

They seem to me comparable to what you might expect from a 29ft mono, but offering more space and doubles in replacement of single berths

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Well Mahes are still cheaper than the Lagoon 380 which is the cat model with the second most units sold in the world. So the pricing can't be such an issue. Maybe the profit margin was just too small.


The latest base price I have for the Mahe is 184k Euro. The new entry level at Fountaine Pajot will be a 39/40ft cat with a base price of 248k Euro. That's 35% more. Minimum equipment packs and all options are also more expensive for a 40ft cat than for a 36ft. This is to me not a small cost to upgrade.

Unfortunately I might be tainted by the second hand prices Im seeing on yachting world.

However the Lagoon 380 is a few 1000 lbs more displacement than Mahe, and yet second hand theyre comparatively cheap, although I tend to take the view there are more of them in circulation, such is their popularity for bare boat charters.

I still think theres room for an econo fibreglass sea worthy cruising cat. Perhaps somewhat smaller, perhaps more lightly fitted out, with an outboard pod.

If there isnt perhaps I should get strip planking right away !

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

Electronics aside, theyre quite a basic fitout, with a tiny galley-up and simple lounge. 3 double berths that socket onto the ends of the hulls and so only display one end, and a head in the remaining other. They dont make much utility out of the centres of the hulls.

They seem to me comparable to what you might expect from a 29ft mono, but offering more space and doubles in replacement of single berths

In terms of systems, there isn't much difference with a 29ft mono. Even moving up to a 40' cat, there isn't much difference in systems (with the possible exception of single vs twin engine boats but I'm not clear what boats you are refering to but an extra small engine is probably only going to be $10-15k difference)

Then again, I see a similar pattern with monohulls and power boat pricing.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Well Mahes are still cheaper than the Lagoon 380 which is the cat model with the second most units sold in the world. So the pricing can't be such an issue. Maybe the profit margin was just too small.


The latest base price I have for the Mahe is 184k Euro. The new entry level at Fountaine Pajot will be a 39/40ft cat with a base price of 248k Euro. That's 35% more. Minimum equipment packs and all options are also more expensive for a 40ft cat than for a 36ft. This is to me not a small cost to upgrade.

But for people who can plunk down the value of a nice house on a toy, it likely isn't a big difference.

For comparison, the 1995 price I quoted would have been maybe 60% of that same house.

From a sales/marketing perspective, I suspect it's a lot like ford dropping the Ranger in the USA. They know the vast majority of people who would be buying the Ranger would just move up to the F150 which holds a higher profit margin. Net effect they drop the Ranger.

(plus from 95-08 the easy credit made it real easy to jump up to the bigger boat when signing the paperwork. It was only when the bills came due that it became a problem but by then the manufacturers had made lots of profit and shifted to larger designs)

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

Electronics aside, theyre quite a basic fitout, with a tiny galley-up and simple lounge. 3 double berths that socket onto the ends of the hulls and so only display one end, and a head in the remaining other. They dont make much utility out of the centres of the hulls.

Are you talking about the Mahe?
If so I fully disagree (except for the basic outfit, which is true). I guess you have never been aboard one.

Originally Posted by ZULU40

They seem to me comparable to what you might expect from a 29ft mono, but offering more space and doubles in replacement of single berths

OK, so you haven't been aboard a Mahe. Comparison with a 29ft mono is ridiculous.
Would you say the same about a Lagoon 380? There is not huge difference between these two, except for the width of the hulls and consequently the head arrangement.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Are you talking about the Mahe?
If so I fully disagree (except for the basic outfit, which is true). I guess you have never been aboard one.

yes Im talking of Mahe
and no I havent had the pleasure

Originally Posted by rabbi

OK, so you haven't been aboard a Mahe. Comparison with a 29ft mono is ridiculous.
Would you say the same about a Lagoon 380? There is not huge difference between these two, except for the width of the hulls and consequently the head arrangement.

the comparisons Im drawing are from the equipment fit, yes the resulting experience is going to be completely different, but thats the whole reason Im making the comparison, bang for buck.

I think the 380 is just going out the bit extra, an extra head is common, theres an owners cabin version with a walk round berth. Its like a smaller version of the 440 pattern, you cant say that about the Mahe.

These are far more complex fitouts when you come to cost the materials and work required. In a way one could say that the Mahe offers a great deal in its plan and fitout, and it does so in a lightweight and cost effective way. That 'is' an achievement.

Trouble is that doesnt seem to me to be reflected in the pricing when they become within the price range of the unwashed such as I. Although I would have to concede I might be comparing replaced bareboats 380's with the Mahe's, its hard to tell.

I guess Im just disappointed that the Mahe is popular and costs that margin more second hand. And that I think I might prefer the simpler and lighter when it comes to fitout.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

But for people who can plunk down the value of a nice house on a toy, it likely isn't a big difference.

For comparison, the 1995 price I quoted would have been maybe 60% of that same house.

From a sales/marketing perspective, I suspect it's a lot like ford dropping the Ranger in the USA. They know the vast majority of people who would be buying the Ranger would just move up to the F150 which holds a higher profit margin. Net effect they drop the Ranger.

(plus from 95-08 the easy credit made it real easy to jump up to the bigger boat when signing the paperwork. It was only when the bills came due that it became a problem but by then the manufacturers had made lots of profit and shifted to larger designs)

Yes I think Im coming to understand the rational
now where did I see that stack of western red cedar....