Westsail and Sister Boats

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Butler

Nice little set of engine shots Burger. Would love to see some pics of your W32 restoration so far. Put together an album! Or did I miss one you already have?

Thank you for the kind words, I have spent the last six years recomissioning "Moondance" from the bottom up. Getting ready to move aboard this year. Have hundreds of pictures of almost anything a Westsailor would like to see, just name your poison.

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Yup...did the same thing...see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f131/challenge-engine-diagnosis-64952.html
By the time it was finished, I became an authority on the Westerbeke W46. Hey look...a good diesel is a good diesel. Does not matter how old it is. I once had a Volvo 2003 27hp. which was crap when it was new. But if it's a tried and true long life diesel, it will be that after a rebuild too. If an engine has under 5000 hours, it's still a pup if it's a 4-107/108, as cburger stated "tore it down for inspection to determine that the motor was fine". You'll notice the guys that rave about the Beta's have no real hours on them. Just that they run nice. My Volvo 2003 ran nice too until it didn't. I had a Westerbeke 4-107 that ran perfect other than a persistent oil leak. About a thimble full after 50 hours. I just learned to stop fretting about it. That was 15 years ago and I know the engine is still going strong for it's current owner. Let me say this...$13000 goes a loooong way buying things like sails and radar. I'll say it again, you're better off buying a spare engine from someone the same as yours for $800 like cburger did. Let the guy you buy it from spend the $13000. For that kind of money you can rebuild that MD3 six times.

This is very sound advice.

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by Celestial Sailor

Yup...did the same thing...see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f131/challenge-engine-diagnosis-64952.html
By the time it was finished, I became an authority on the Westerbeke W46. Hey look...a good diesel is a good diesel. Does not matter how old it is. I once had a Volvo 2003 27hp. which was crap when it was new. But if it's a tried and true long life diesel, it will be that after a rebuild too. If an engine has under 5000 hours, it's still a pup if it's a 4-107/108, as cburger stated "tore it down for inspection to determine that the motor was fine". You'll notice the guys that rave about the Beta's have no real hours on them. Just that they run nice. My Volvo 2003 ran nice too until it didn't. I had a Westerbeke 4-107 that ran perfect other than a persistent oil leak. About a thimble full after 50 hours. I just learned to stop fretting about it. That was 15 years ago and I know the engine is still going strong for it's current owner. Let me say this...$13000 goes a long way buying things like sails and radar. I'll say it again, you're better off buying a spare engine from someone the same as yours for $800 like cburger did. Let the guy you buy it from spend the $13000. For that kind of money you can rebuild that MD3 six times.

Okay, Okay, I'm hearing you. I guess part of my problem is I don't know these engines, yet, but what you're saying makes since to me. Also, the engine that's in it now is reported to be sound. Yes, re-evaluate. Thanks.

[Bashleys]

Agreed, the Rafiki is a great bluewater boat, unless u have to deal w/teak decks and black iron tanks.... The 35 is a shoal draft, but sails well in heavy wind...just don't ask much from her in lighter winds..!

[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Yup...did the same thing...see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f131/challenge-engine-diagnosis-64952.html
By the time it was finished, I became an authority on the Westerbeke W46. Hey look...a good diesel is a good diesel. Does not matter how old it is. I once had a Volvo 2003 27hp. which was crap when it was new. But if it's a tried and true long life diesel, it will be that after a rebuild too. If an engine has under 5000 hours, it's still a pup if it's a 4-107/108, as cburger stated "tore it down for inspection to determine that the motor was fine". You'll notice the guys that rave about the Beta's have no real hours on them. Just that they run nice. My Volvo 2003 ran nice too until it didn't. I had a Westerbeke 4-107 that ran perfect other than a persistent oil leak. About a thimble full after 50 hours. I just learned to stop fretting about it. That was 15 years ago and I know the engine is still going strong for it's current owner. Let me say this...$13000 goes a loooong way buying things like sails and radar. I'll say it again, you're better off buying a spare engine from someone the same as yours for $800 like cburger did. Let the guy you buy it from spend the $13000. For that kind of money you can rebuild that MD3 six times.

Excellent advice. It's unfortunate that the mentality of "It's cheaper to replace than repair" often gets followed. I think that the problem is that the price of skilled tech time is very high. By rebuilding yourself, *YOU* become the skilled tech and hopefully are then able to address most future problem yourself. Of course this only works so far. I did replace the the old 2QM15 in my Bayfield 32 with a Beta 20. The old Yanmar was raw water cooled and the parts that typically rot from that (the exhaust manifold) are no longer available. So there, replacement was the best option. On my new boat, we have a well running Westerbeke W46 that I'll likely pull and replace wear items / rebuild before we take off south. Celestial - I'll be looking for expert advice when that project starts

[Celestialsailor]

Now that we have swung to rebuild rather than replace...let me stress that when you are ready to do a rebuild, do the research first. As stated in a few posts, sometimes parts are difficult to find. The reason for this is simple. Manufactures are always upgrading. Approximately 5-7 years. Westerbeke is famous for that. They are basically a marinizing company. They do not build engines. The Westerbeke W46 is a Mitsubishi 4DQ5. That model number is cast on the block.
So no matter what the make of your engine is, check availability of all parts. Not only crank journals and bearings, but pistons, rings, guides and seal, thermostat housing...the works! Nothing is more frustrating than being $2000 into a rebuild to find that rings are not available.
I'll relate an incident that happened for my rebuild. For a gasket kit for the engine was $1400 from Westerbeke. I almost s&*t. I called Mitsubishi and they gave me the number of my local distributor. The same gasket set was $230 from them...big difference. I still had to make a few home made gaskets for the marinizing stuff. Having said that, I heard that Westerbeke does not want the engne manufacturers to sell to a customer with a Westerbeke. You can understand why if they charge triple. Not wanting to test this, I was tight lipped that I had a Westerbeke and not just a 4DQ5.
Remember too...check the heat exchangers. They are also expensive. It seems every time the word marine is used, you can triple the price. This is true with so call diesel professionals in the marine trade. You are way better off finding a engine re-builder (usually automotive) with a machine shop. Most of these guys have rebuilt smaller diesels from the refrigeration containers (Perkins 4-108). There is no magic to an engine, they're straight forward. Make sure you interview a few builders and see (online) what others are saying about them. My guy did an excellent job but he talked more than worked and the job took 3 times longer than expected. I take part of the blame since some of the parts had to come in from Japan to my city. My experience was that marine engine builders were charging close to $100@hr here. The local shops were $50-$60@hr. It's a hassle pulling the engine and getting invovled on the level that I did but I'm a blue collar guy and I liked the experience...after it finally fired up. At least now, I know what I'm doing and can fix most problems with the iron beast.

[Cheechako]

My Passport 47 had a Nanni/Mercedes (D140 taxi engine) 85 HP diesel. I purchased spares from the Mercedes Dealer in Annapolis. Cheapest boat engine parts I ever bought! The complete engine gasket set was about $150 and a new Fresh water pump was $32! I almost fell off the stool.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

My Passport 47 had a Nanni/Mercedes (D140 taxi engine) 85 HP diesel. I purchased spares from the Mercedes Dealer in Annapolis. Cheapest boat engine parts I ever bought! The complete engine gasket set was about $150 and a new Fresh water pump was $32! I almost fell off the stool.

Hey Cheech, I bet you are one of a very few people who ever walked out of a Mercedes store thinking how cheap the parts are!

I used to have my car serviced there in Annapolis. Funny how the perspective changes from cars to boats.

[Fenchurch9]

Originally Posted by Target9000

Whatever man. Everyone knows the W32 has the finest ass of any boat.

Anyone that says different is just hatin'.

I say that all the time, and people look at me like I'm nuts! My girl Maka Le'a's got a great ass!

[Fenchurch9]

Originally Posted by SKG56

Looks very good cb, after learning more about the volvo that's in this W32, I'm going to keep it for a while, but still want to repower with the new Beta 38 before heading to SP. I need to study up on this volvo, I know next to nothing about it. One things for sure I'm going to be an expert on the engine that's in that boat when it's time to do the distance.

I have a Beta 38hp in Maka Le'a and we absolutely love it. AND.... the customer service is FREEKING AMAZING!! I can't say enough good things about the crew that run the Beta down in NC. Amazing! Amazing! Amazing!!

[Blue Stocking]

Nice article on Westsail in new "Good Old Boat" mag.

[cburger]

I have a copy, it's very nice to see that 40 years later Westsails are still being written about. One point that I found very interesting from the article was the author claims the W32 has made more circimnavigations than any other sailboat type.

[roverhi]

Prior to the modern era, circa 1970, boats that were or very similar to the Atkins Eric/Thistle were the single design that had made the most circumnavigations.
Vito Dumas and Robin Knox Johnston being two that did it in Eric derivatives. The Atkins design was modified by Crealock and became the W32. Think there has to be some W32's that have made the circuit and can be added to the Atkins total.

Still, believe the Valiant 40 now holds the record for trips around.

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by cburger

I have a copy, it's very nice to see that 40 years later Westsails are still being written about. One point that I found very interesting from the article was the author claims the W32 has made more circimnavigations than any other sailboat type.

Heck... Ours has been around 3 times and we're looking to put a 4th under her keel.