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Old 08-05-2012, 19:24   #31
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

formosa ketches reefed down will make 120 miles daily with decent conditions. btdt. own one.

what kind of boat do you consider a dog.

what style design do you like.--makes a difference.

you will not have perfect days every day. some days will be 80 mile days some less, and some will be 150 mile days.. some will be 100 mile days. cannot count on number of miles in 24 hours sans engine.

anything will make xxx hours in a day with engine in use.
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Old 08-05-2012, 20:10   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
.

anything will make xxx hours in a day with engine in use.
Currents permitting.

I know Zee knows this but I find the bigger the boat the more important tide and current planning is to the skipper. If your engine pushes you at 6 knots or 4 it's always better to be running with the 2 knot current...
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:56   #33
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

I was thinking about those classic boats going fast(est) and perhaps the secret is for the boat NOT to drag huge underbody along. If you look at classics from Hoek to Huisman you will see they are almost as shallow as a modern racing boat.

The underbody is something you may get stuck with. You can extend the mast, you can get code zeroes and fully battened mains, etc.. But you are stuck with the original volume and its distribution.

Now, as far as I understand boat physics, up to a point (light winds) it is the wetted area that counts most - finer keel and rudder foils = more speed. Beyond this point (upper ranges of sqrt(LWL)) it is the water that we push that slows us down - less volume displaced = more speed.

So, IMHO, if one wants a classic AND to go fast in all conditions then it makes sense to opt for a classic top with pretty modern underbody. Otherwise the only way to go faster is to go BIGGER.

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:57   #34
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

The BCC is the only one of the boats mentioned so far that will have good resale value. The Nor'sea 27, another Lyle Hess design, also has good resale value (and is trailerable) but will not do 150 mile days.

Personally I like the Tayana 37, but ketch rigged. The ketch balances very well. Try to find one with the fuel tank under the settee, where Perry wanted to put it, instead of forward, where the builder sometimes put it.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:24   #35
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

i once saw a nice westsail 43. this is a crealock design. really a stout boat.

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:59   #36
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

any boat will move to it's hull speed, just a matter of putting up sail area and work! Going to weather is another issue though!
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Old 09-05-2012, 13:53   #37
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
any boat will move to it's hull speed, just a matter of putting up sail area and work! Going to weather is another issue though!
Yes. Most boats can match their hull speed on a good day and over a good course. But the question rather is (IMHO) how many miles a day can a design make over an extended passage.

But this is very easy to calculate from the data of races like the Transpac, or rallies like the ARC.

Your comment re upwind sailing can be extended to other wind angles - especially perhaps to downwind sailing - this is so because most crews will avoid running - especially perhaps those in classic hulls.

Another issue is that as much as going upwind 'putting up (enough) sail area' is often possible, this is quite a different challenge downwind - without a kite, most classic boats are seriously underpowered, while using a kite implies having strong crew and giving more attention to sail trim than most cruisers will care for.

To sum up, I would guess that a clean, well sailed classic boat will make roughly 1.0 sqrt of its LWL (reduced to the direct track = made good). This is what I would count on for anything like Cal to Hawaii or Gibraltar to West Indies run. I think 1.1 is more probable for destinations that can be on close/beam reach.

Please note that many classics have extremely short LWL (or else - extremely long overhangs). This bears on attainable speeds - especially so in smaller boats.

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Old 10-05-2012, 12:39   #38
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

I have now owed my "classic" for 4 years. I am still learning what she can do. When in an emergency presented I turned around and ran to a port. She surfed at 11 knots on the GPS. At 40 ft and heavy displacement she should'nt have been able to do that. She did for two hours. Never want that much sail up in those conditions again. (Solo -near gale)
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:48   #39
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

"Please note that many classics have extremely short LWL (or else - extremely long overhangs). This bears on attainable speeds - especially so in smaller boats."

This is very true. My Mariner 35, although 40 feet total length with the bowsprit only had a waterline length of 26.75 feet, whereas the Westsail 32 has a 27 foot waterline. The Nonsuch 30, a cat boat, has a waterline well over 28 feet which would make a faster boat with a considerably shorter total length.
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Old 10-05-2012, 13:07   #40
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

these rock...handle high winds easily and actually get ye from point a to point z

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Old 10-05-2012, 13:15   #41
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I have now owed my "classic" for 4 years. I am still learning what she can do. When in an emergency presented I turned around and ran to a port. She surfed at 11 knots on the GPS. At 40 ft and heavy displacement she should'nt have been able to do that. She did for two hours. Never want that much sail up in those conditions again. (Solo -near gale)
Momentary speeds when pushed by the wave plus some current. She was probably sailing at her hull speed then (9 or something like that?).

BTW I think V40 is mid-displacement.

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Old 10-05-2012, 13:52   #42
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

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Cape George 31 is a pretty little boat that looks like a bigger BCC.
As the owner of a Cape George 36, I approve this message. But I'd get a 36. They are quite fast for a traditional boat having a long slim "Atkinized" hull.

OTOH, you didn't mention how many people aboard. The CG's are not large inside owing to the slimness of the hull. But they are very pretty and they are pretty fast and they are built to last.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:59   #43
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

A friend is sailing a BCC. She is very pretty and sails very well too. A bit limited down below but I think one gets used to that. His is a GRP one.

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Old 10-05-2012, 17:54   #44
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Momentary speeds when pushed by the wave plus some current. She was probably sailing at her hull speed then (9 or something like that?).

BTW I think V40 is mid-displacement.

b.
Barnie- I guess the point I wanted to make is that hard cold numbers sometimes don't mesh with reality. The bottom of Beth looks a lot like a big j-24. She was surfing. We did 16 miles in an hour some change. The current was not going that direction off Flattery, but we may have caught a back wash....
What the heck it doesn't matter. I would never cruise like that.
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Old 10-05-2012, 18:00   #45
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Re: Vintage Sailboat- Which to choose?

Freedom 40 Center Cockpit with a bowsprit added to it. Chop off the hideous-but-functional cockpit enclosure and you'll regain that traditional look.

To be honest, I'd remove the bowsprit and dingy davits, too. I don't like any of the external "modifications" they made to this boat.

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