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Old 18-02-2016, 08:40   #16
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

This is of no help to my European friends, but thought I'd share an opinion. I just sold my venerable Yankee 30 for which I had a triple axle trailer. I used the trailer infrequently, but it was very useful at times for getting my boat home from locations on the ocean when the weather went to snot even though trailering behind my 3/4 ton diesel was sometimes white knuckled. Good brakes are KEY. I also used it to drag the boat home to do my own bottom work, painting, and maintenance, which saved big coin from the boatyard, even though I had to pay to have the keel stepped mast lowered, and paid to sling the boat on the trailer. One advantage was that I RENTED the trailer pretty often, which kept it maintained, and upgraded, plus gave me a little coin. I've aged beyond ocean racing, so have downsized to an Albin 7.9 meter, fin keeled sailboat with trailer which cost about as much as the triple axle trailer sold for!. Much less stress to trailer a much lighter boat on a double axle trailer, to get to great cruising areas infrequently, but I leave the boat at a moorage on the Columbia River and use it at least once a week for casual racing all winter and much more in summer. The trailer is VERY handy for me, but not used much, so I offer it for rent on occasion. Works for me, but every person and situation is so unique and personal....
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Old 18-02-2016, 09:14   #17
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

In my particular circumstance, the $450 a season I pay for a slip is a no-brainer.
Trailered it for a few years, but then figured it wasn't worth the hassle of 3 hours per outing for launching, stepping...telescoping the trailer and blah, blah...now it's twice a year, once to drop it off, once to bring it home.
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Old 18-02-2016, 10:28   #18
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

Hi,
Well, I'm making those same calculations, but I have an enphasis on my understanding of how much more fun it will be to trail to and sail in different places.
I live in Lisbon, and mooring here can be VERY expensive, around 151€ per month = (185 in high season*6 +116 in low season *6)/12.
Total 1812 per year, just for the slip.
I'd have to hire a slip out of Lisbon, either in VF Xira to the North or Seixal to the South and then I could only sail around there.
So my current plan (though I'm still boatless) is to buy a trailer sailer and keep it out of the water (depending on size could stay in my garage) and trail it wherever I want on a long weekend or for vacation, though for vacation I'll probably keep it in the water for those (few...) days.
As for costs I have identified:
. 32€ per month to keep the boat out of the water if I can't keep it in the garage (average/mix of sail club and on water when on vacation)
. 84€ per year for insurance of the boat
. 44€ per year added insurance of the trailer
. 9€ per year for lighthouse tax
Total of 515€ per year or 43 per month
The added gas I'll use to trailer it, will be part of the weekend overall cost, and some nights I'll even (hopefully) save on hotel room, sleeping on the boat
Of course all these values are to be taken with a grain of salt, they are simulations and suppositions of what use I'll make of the boat I still don't have...
BUT, I still think it's a better option for me, I can't justify even for myself, to have the boat in a slip
My 2 cents
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Old 18-02-2016, 10:36   #19
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

A trailer sailor can save you a lot in moorage. But if you don't already have a tow vehicle , no it doesn't. Also, it's a PITA to set up a trailer boat, so moorage in the good weather months is nice... and allows you to go sailing without a major expedition.
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Old 18-02-2016, 14:18   #20
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

Like many of us, I sailed, and my wife didn't. So we started out with a MacGregor 25 (the old one), as the family boat, sailing locally in Socal (Catalina, etc.), and the boat lived on the trailer in a yard. We trailered to lakes and rivers - boat had a centerboard. Costs and maintenance were minimal, but we wanted more - room, comfort, performance. I was happy with the J24 for racing, and 30-foot family boat lived in a slip. Between the slip costs, the bottom guy and basic maintenance, the in-the-water boat cost more than five-times what the trailered cruiser cost.

Over time, the racing boat has gotten bigger and faster, as has the family boat. After about 30 feet, trailering gets interesting, and after 45 feet, in the water costs change.

So, the decision rests on what kind of sailing you're going to do, and where. Overnight, or weeks. Once a month or twice a week. How often are you sleeping and eating on the boat, and how many crew. If you're truly addicted, then in the water makes sense, and you'll live with the costs. If not, then a trailer is probaby a better plan.
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Old 18-02-2016, 15:19   #21
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

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Originally Posted by ptrailsail View Post
32€ per month to keep the boat out of the water if I can't keep it in the garage (average/mix of sail club and on water when on vacation)
. 84€ per year for insurance of the boat
. 44€ per year added insurance of the trailer
. 9€ per year for lighthouse tax
Hi there (greetings countryman )
From my experience, you're underestimating the trailer insurance cost by far. 5 years ago I was paying 75€ for mine... but that boat was a 5mt RIB, single axle. Keeping it in the garage was not an option, since the boat + outboard + trailer was almost 7mt long.
9€ lighthouse tax? Already? Wow... used to be 5€ :-)
I'm currently in Prague, but going to Lisbon in April... we should get together and have some boatless talk :-) :-) :-)
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Old 18-02-2016, 15:22   #22
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
A trailer sailor can save you a lot in moorage. But if you don't already have a tow vehicle , no it doesn't.
Yep... and unfortunately I don't. My european Renault would spit it's clutch on the first hill.
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Old 18-02-2016, 19:52   #23
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

Definitely depends on your boat & cruising grounds. I don't know about the Czech Republic but here, the grounds are the Great Lakes. This is a life-times worth of quality cruising on fresh water. Trailering is a great way to skip a week's transit time to start where you want to be. I have trailered all over the Great Lakes with various small boats for 50 years and have never had to service bearings or trailers. I keep the hubs out of the water at the launch. Most of my trailer wheels die of old age before they need replacing. I am sure this is not the case for hauling larger & heavier boats. One thing I have always done is to make sure the trailer tires/wheels are full-size vehicle equipment - not the usual tiny undersized stuff usually sold. Always carry a spare and a jack and you will never need it. My guess is the greatest expense is the hauling vehicle. Possibly, this can be rented more economically than owning. If my cruising grounds were far away, I would want the boat near where I live or look for a way to dry store and launch on demand. Many places here will have your boat at the ready for you with a couple hours notice and pull it to storage when you are done. They make sure the battery is topped and everything is in order.
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Old 18-02-2016, 21:01   #24
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

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Originally Posted by John_Trusty View Post
I found that trailering and stepping the mast (about 30 min in each direction) was not worth it -- an hour of hard work for a couple hours of sailing on a different lake.
We have a 25 ft boat that we trailer all over the west. But, the set-up time is 2 to 3 hours each way! This eliminates any thought of day sailing her and we rarely go to the trouble for less than a week of sailing at a time. In the winter she lives in a slip here in AZ. If the weather is nice we sail. If we lived closer to the ocean we would have a boat in a slip. No question.
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Old 18-02-2016, 21:17   #25
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
By chance is a "Yacht club" with a launch ramp and a lot where you can leave the boat an option?

This is the way we went with our 20 foot trailer sailor. Stored with mast on and ready to go at the club. Ten minutes to launch, and the club even provided a tractor so you didn't need to risk taking your car for a swim. Then on the odd occasion we'd drop the mast and take the boat somewhere special. Storage cost was less than one quarter of a keel boat in the same club.


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Old 18-02-2016, 21:27   #26
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

I used to own a 15-foot "trailer sailer" and even though I was in good shape (in my 20's) it was a lot of work to put up the rig for launch and take it down for trailering. Climbing up, down, up, down, can get tiring especially if the weather is hot and humid.


When I sold that boat I was convinced I'd never get another sailboat unless I could leave it in the water for day/weekend use. A power boat is easy, just push it in and haul it out. I'm in my 60's now and 40+ years later I've owned sailboats up to 12 meters (and dinghies/skiffs) but always used a mooring for the sailboats.
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Old 19-02-2016, 00:13   #27
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

Messias, I had to giggle when I read your phrase, "my Renault would spit it's clutch on the first hill." I will remember that for a long time. Smile.


I like trailerable boats for one main reason. I can cruise wherever I want to. I am not dedicated to just the range that I can sail in a week or two. I can sail Bahamas, San Juans, Sea of Cortez, Channel Islands, Great Lakes....you can do the same also if you have the truck. But I think that is where you will face your biggest challenge is the big truck. I also liked your statement of getting the two boatless guys together to talk about your boat less condition. You've a great sense of humor...
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Old 19-02-2016, 01:26   #28
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

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Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
You've a great sense of humor...
Thanks.

Hey... does a boatless guy with an average income, 8am to 5pm job (well...more 7 to 7) kids in school and currently living in a land-locked country has any other option? You΄ve got to be able to laugh about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Definitely depends on your boat & cruising grounds. I don't know about the Czech Republic (...)
Well, as a land-locked country with a harsh winter, the closest cruising grounds are the Baltic (500km North); The North Sea (650Km North-West); The Adriatic (750km South) or the British Channel at more than 1000km West. Here in Czech Republic the biggest lake is 200km away from where I live and with 46,5 km² and not much wide, could hardly be called "cruising ground"... but for the weekend, from April to October if just fine of course.
I mentioned the "harsh winter" because that big lake usually freezes during the winter time.
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Old 19-02-2016, 05:16   #29
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

Hummm...

Did some deeper investigation on those costs in Czech Republic and surrounding countries and came up with these (best) figures for my current situation:

SLIP IN A YACHTCLUB:
-Yearly berth in Poland (Baltic Sea) with 6 months in the water and 6 months on the hard, will be between 500€ ~ 600€ (already converted from Polish Zloty)
-Round trip -roughly 500km each way- from Prague in my car will eat up to 100€ in fuel (no added costs in tolls, since it΄s a yearly fee and I already pay for it (through German highways)
-Launch and Recover of the boat while on the hard (stepping and unstepping mast included) will be between 12€ ~ 20€

So... 600€ for the berth, plus:
going sailing in summer season; 100€
going sailing in the winter season: 120€
Forecast number of sailing days: No idea, but since it΄s not that far, probably any longer weekend is doable and for sure an extended cruise during vacations as well.

TRAILER SAILER IN CZ:
-Rent for a suitable (private, covered and big enough) "parking" averages 70€/month.
-Yachtclub storage here is about 350€ ~ 450€ year (stepping masts included)
-New car... out-of-the-question€
-Etc..

Pretty no-brainer

My only real option, (if I want to do some more serious sailing, of course) is storing the boat abroad and take the "small" 5h drive up north.

So be it!
This actually opens up more possibilities in terms of boat design, since I will not need to stick to a trailerable version.
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Old 19-02-2016, 05:32   #30
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Re: Trailer-sailers costs Vs fixed moorings

I was a trailer sailer for years. Own a docked keel boat now. I'd say in terms of miles per dollar sailed value my docked boat wins hands down.
So easy to go out for a couple hours after work mid summer when it is dusk at 9pm.
Start the motor, take off the sail covers, undo the docklines - sailing in 5 minutes.
I don't need a big boat, mine's a 25 footer, but the difference below deck between a 21' and 25' is huge! Standing headroom (for average people) and a head with a door, built in icebox, proper stove.
The difference between the 17' and 21' wasn't really that much, both were "tight" down below, much better pop top on the 21' though.
All in I'd say with some rough mental math ballpark 500$ more all in a year. BUT I sail 3-4 times a week now vs 1-2.
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