Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-04-2010, 21:00   #1
Registered User
 
OrangeCrush's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Shannon Pilothouse 38
Posts: 614
To Bottom Paint, or Not to Bottom Paint (or Just a Touch-Up)

Hello all,

I am trying to decide whether or not to have my marina scrape and paint the bottom again this year on my 1978 Pearson 26.

I just had them do it last year. I wasn't expecting to need another painting so soon, but the paint has chipped in a few places on the hull and there are a few spots of rust showing through on the iron keel (the keel was ground down and resealed and overall it is still looking pretty fresh... I put some POR-15 on the small rust spots to forestall any corrosion until grinding becomes necessary again).

To complicate matters slightly, I also recently patched up 4 old thru-hull fittings and I now have 4 patches of bare fiberglass I need to cover up.

So here is my question: Should I really dish out another $350 bucks for the marina to repaint the keel, or can I touch it up myself? Even if the marina does it, do I need to prime the bare spots or should I have them do that too? The local marine store sells sandless primer and bottom paint for about $75 combined. Is the bottom paint still lethal and illegal to do myself even if I don't spray it? And if I brush it on, is it effective?

I am on a tight budget here and I hate the idea of paying the marina to scrape and repaint the bottom if 90% of it is fine. Any insights into how I can safely and effectively do this myself?
__________________

__________________
OrangeCrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2010, 22:53   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
If the marina allows you to do your own work you should do it yourself.

We switched from hard paint to soft ablative. I had the marina do all that. The next time the labor portion was minimal to sand and apply the same paint type so I let them do it again.

If it was touch up or patching I would likely do it myself. However I am fortunate that the labor here is relatively inexpensive compared to materials and scubbing hulls in 35DEGC temps is no fun.
__________________

__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 06:31   #3
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,203
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Any sanding to soften edges where its chipped use wet n dry paper with a bucket of water... prime then build up those spots with A/foul then roller on a coupla more coats.... on a boat that small you could do it in a day
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 12:25   #4
Registered User
 
SabreKai's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada on Lake Ontario
Boat: Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 1,287
Images: 5
Since I am in fresh water, I gave up painting the bottom a couple of years ago. I find that if I take the boat out regularly, the gunk will wash off, and on the up sun side it hardly grows at all anyway. So far it seems to work quite well for me.

I would suggest that any work you can proficiently do yourself, should be handled by yourself. Saves you money and gives you a certain amount of satisfaction. It also makes you feel at one with your boat.


Sabre
__________________
SabreKai
SV Sabre Dance, Roberts Offshore 38
http://sabredancing.wordpress.com/
SabreKai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 12:34   #5
Registered User
 
OrangeCrush's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Shannon Pilothouse 38
Posts: 614
Thanks for the tips, guys.

I agree that I would rather do it myself. If I ask the marina if I can do it I know what they are going to say. They will say I am not allowed to do any painting below the waterline because of DEP and EPA regs (I am located in Brooklyn, NY).

I have been told by other people at the marina not to listen to them, that they only want my money, etc. I don't think my marina is dishonest, perhaps just a little cautious.

Honestly, I don't think they will really notice and/or say anything if I just go ahead and do it myself. But does anyone know if this is breaking the law? Do I need a license to paint the bottom, or just to spray it? If I paint it by hand, do I need any special safety gear or should I just be very careful with it?

I am definitely leaning toward doing it myself but a little advice about the legal and safety implications would be much appreciated. Thanks, Jack
__________________
OrangeCrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 14:06   #6
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
If they tell you that you are "not allowed to do any painting below the waterline because of DEP and EPA regs", ask them to cite the reg to which they refer.

There is NO EPA regulation prohibiting this and, although I am unfamiliar with all state regs, I believe NY has no such prohibition either.

Having said that, what does your contract with the marina say, if anything, in this matter?

The only safety rule here is common sense to protect your skin and lungs and hopefully not spread copper all over the parking lot by using a non-dustless sander.
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 14:24   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jonesport, Maine
Boat: Rosa B
Posts: 23
You can brush or roll the paint on. These days a marina can get in serious trouble with the DEP if certain precautions aren't taken. Ask them if you can put down tarps under your boat, or whatever you have to do to comply. Maybe there is a more DIY friendly boatyard near.
__________________
Jimboats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 14:33   #8
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,551
Images: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboats View Post
You can brush or roll the paint on. These days a marina can get in serious trouble with the DEP if certain precautions aren't taken. Ask them if you can put down tarps under your boat, or whatever you have to do to comply. Maybe there is a more DIY friendly boatyard near.
Agreed, careful disposal of tins and rollers is required too. Us last week, thankfully done for another year.



__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2010, 23:18   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
From the New York DEC web site:

Boat Owners Who Apply Antifouling Paint on Marina Property

Boat owners who are not Commercial Pesticide Applicators Certified in subcategory 5D may use antifouling paints on marina property only if all of the following conditions are met:
  • the boat owner uses antifouling paints that are General Use pesticides and follows all pesticide label directions; and
  • the boat owner personally owns or leases the boat being painted; and
  • the boat owner has an agreement for boat storage at the marina and has written permission from the marina owner/operator to paint their boat on marina property or a specific clause in their contract, lease, or other form of written agreement for boat storage at the marina that allows this activity.
Boat owners should discuss applying antifouling paints to their boat with the marina owner/operator before they begin painting, and become familiar with the marina's policies and/or restrictions regarding this maintenance activity. Boat owners should be aware that they are subject to enforcement by the Department if they violate the relevant sections of the Environmental Conservation Law and related regulations if the antifouling paint is not applied in accordance with the pesticide label or if any wastes are disposed of improperly.

Requirements for Applying Antifouling Paints - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 00:27   #10
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
You lot need a new Ammendment to your constitution: NO MORE STUPID LAWS.

I bet that would pass a popular vote
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 08:33   #11
Registered User
 
OrangeCrush's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Shannon Pilothouse 38
Posts: 614
Thanks

Thanks again, guys. You're always a big help. I was leaning towards doing it myself, but I asked the guys at the marina about it and they said I'm really not allowed to. It's written in the contract that I am NOT allowed to apply bottom paint. They asked me very nicely not to touch it up myself because other people will get the same idea and wonder why I am allowed while they are not. They made a good case and cut me a good deal on painting it.

Furthermore, the marina is located in Jamaica Bay, Brooklyn, which is one of the more sensitive and troubled wetlands ecosystems in the country and part of the national protected area. Unfortunately, I don't think the guys at the marina are as careful about the environment as they could be. Can't win 'em all...
__________________
OrangeCrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 09:11   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Agreed, careful disposal of tins and rollers is required too. Us last week, thankfully done for another year.



As environmentally forward-thinking as western Europe and the U.K. tend to be, I find it amazing that it is legal to do a bottom job (with all its attendant sanding, scraping, spilling, power-washing blow-off etc.) right on the water.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 09:48   #13
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,551
Images: 14
Well, if modern antifoul paint actually contained something nasty you would have a point, but each year I do wonder if I would be better off just slapping a coat of house hold imulsion paint on

The local council have some sensible rules about what can go into the rubbish disposal bins, like tins need to be empty etc, otherwise not a problem.

What you can't see is the home of the Royal Navy is just out of shot on the left. I am willing to bet they don't use the stuff we have to.

Actually other than pressure washing plus sanding down the prop and a couple of spots on the keels, I normally just paint more erroding paint on top each year. In terms of cost the slipway belongs to a yacht club so members use it for free. To lift out for a couple of days and back in would be $600, hence the use of the scrubbing grid.

Pete
__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 10:12   #14
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Well, if modern antifoul paint actually contained something nasty you would have a point...
Here in the States, copper-based anti fouling paints are registered as pesticides. You can hardly say they are harmless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
..but each year I do wonder if I would be better off just slapping a coat of house hold imulsion paint on
If you could get away with that then you don't have the kind of fouling issues we do in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Actually other than pressure washing plus sanding down the prop and a couple of spots on the keels, I normally just paint more erroding paint on top each year. In terms of cost the slipway belongs to a yacht club so members use it for free. To lift out for a couple of days and back in would be $600, hence the use of the scrubbing grid.
If grids are being used for bottom jobs, then paint (and God knows what else) is going into the water. One boat maybe doesn't have a big impact, but multiply that times everybody who uses the grid, and then multiply that times all the grids being used and it does make a difference. That maintenance technique is so 19th Century, I'm just surprised that it is allowed in Britain.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 10:18   #15
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
It's getting tough to do bottom paint these days. We do it and other than smoothing chips, we don't sand ablative at all but use Acetone and rags. Any sanding is done with vacuum sanders. If going froma soft to a hard paint or to redo the barrier coat, we soda blast and collect ALL of the residue for disposal. No more Smurf's allowed in the yard....
__________________

__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bottom paint

« Omega 36 | Isak K »
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bottom Paint or Not? dpollitt Construction, Maintenance & Refit 22 03-02-2010 13:55
Old Bottom Paint TexSail Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 02-12-2009 14:02
bottom paint? turkish6 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 24-08-2008 08:37
Bottom Paint - Don't Do This!!! markpj23 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 20-12-2006 08:10



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.