The criteria of "blue"

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

I have noticed some builders are niching this as a selling point such as passport yachts that dedicate a lot of space to giving superior engine access. That is quite a brave thing to do by the designer/builder coz its not a very sexy point for the novice. Shiny coffee makers would be more emotional.

Have a question for you and maybe you can throw some light on it. Would you say that every square inch of a hull below the water line must be able to provide some kind of access solution whilst mid ocean or do we have to accept that in a complex boat total access is something that we simply can not have?

Incidentally, 12000 hits and no degeneration thus far. A few blows a long the way but no storms in anyone's tea cup on anyone's armchair that I can recall.. The thread is quite a happy ship.

Then I showed up.. bored and pissed off

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

Better use of space is wine storage. Full wine bottles are heavier than shoes. And it keeps the wine cool.

I am guessing you inspect your bilge quite a lot then.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

WTF science is behind CE.. how fast one can [turn to] crap..?

Example: Brass through hull fittings. Skin fittings. Awesome, the way one of those CE approved, brass marvels will just snap off in your hands after just a few years.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Then I showed up.. bored and pissed off

I suffer from gumpyitus also boatman61 - It is only a force of 1 and passes fast. Don't worry.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

I suffer from gumpyitus also boatman61 - It is only a force of 1 and passes fast. Don't worry.

Yes but if you sail before it you tend to stay in it!

[goat]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Otherwise maybe.. just maybe one could buy a boat with an easy to access engine.. and not need 7ft long arms and a rubber body.. water and fuel tanks you don't have to rip half the boat apart to get at if something starts leaking.. and decent storage space.. middle of nowhere is blue water.. not somewhere with the latest and greatest high tech boatyard

...and a simple tiller to rudder connection for steering.....

goat

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goat

...and a simple tiller to rudder connection for steering.....

goat

Or perhaps a more modest sized boat with bilge keels just out there doing it. It isn't the boat or the fittings, it's the crew that counts.

VolksCruiser: Just a couple of boats in an anchorage...

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by boatman61

How about 'Built to Lloyd's Specifications' where the boat is inspected through each stage of its build rather than something introduce and pushed through Brussels to stop the flow of cheaper foreign built boats back in the 90's when the GBP and euro bought a lot of boat..
Science.. WTF science is behind CE.. how fast one can crap..?

We have the american ABYC compliance regs or we have the CE certification. Other places have their own.

The ABYC is very similar in spec to the CE regs but is a standard of compliance unlike CE which is a directive of standards that must be certified by an inspector by law.

Lloyds and ABS are about classification. These societies are different kinds of animals and a pleasure yachts unless it is a mega yacht is not a candidates for classification.

ABS will not get involved in anything less than 24 meters I think and Lloyds is not up to date with modern materials and building techniques employed by small boat builders so why would you bother with Lloyds?

Yep, you can build a small leisure boat to Lloyds A1 spec but it will be quite traditional and very expensive because of the fees Lloyds charge. Classification by Lloyds is for the big stuff.

So as consumers we have two choices. Trust in your builder to comply with ABYC or be assured that your builder has complied with those near same standards in the recreational Craft Directive via the CE mark of approval.

I choose the latter for my peace of mind and to expect the industry to register with Lloyds when it has little or no relevance to small recreational yacht building is rather an unrealistic expectation to say the least.

[goat]

Following codes will allow you to build the worst possible boat allowed by law. Poke around in the guts of a well built boat and the differences are obvious.
Go buy a boat already, nobody is going to certify a boat to go out in a hurricane, and you don't want to anyway. You'll know when you're comfortable with your boat choice.

Walk away from the computer and go sailing, the graphics are incredible.


goat

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by goat

Following codes will allow you to build the worst possible boat allowed by law. Poke around in the guts of a well built boat and the differences are obvious.
Go buy a boat already, nobody is going to certify a boat to go out in a hurricane, and you don't want to anyway. You'll know when you're comfortable with your boat choice.

Walk away from the computer and go sailing, the graphics are incredible.


goat

Maybe we should build aircraft using your philosophy too... A plane crashed? What plane - where?

The day you can get decent insurance cover that wont break the bank is the day we can build better boats your way without standards.

It was the insurance companies that drove these standards into being in the first place and probably because they were fed up paying out against those that floundered.

[goat]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

Maybe we should build aircraft using your philosophy too... A plane crashed? What plane - where?

The day you can get decent insurance cover that wont break the bank is the day we can build better boats your way without standards.

It was the insurance companies that drove these standards into being in the first place and probably because they were fed up paying out against those that floundered.

I'm not saying build without standards, what I said was; the standards will allow you to build the worst legal boat possible. Don't forget that the standards are derived from which boats sank and which ones didn't. Good building techniques are used by good builders, minimum standards are just that; minimum.

It sounds to me like you're chasing your tail around trying to get legislation to make you feel safe in your choice. Even if all the boat builders and legislators were reading this thread and totally agreed with you, these 'blue water standards' wouldn't be implemented until long after you've passed on to Davy Jones' locker.

Once again, buy a boat, go sailing.

No need to quote and reply, I also am out of this thread. Carry on with the dead horse beating.

goat out.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by goat

It sounds to me like you're chasing your tail around trying to get legislation to make you feel safe in your choice.


goat out.

No. I am simply replying to some one who mentioned earlier we should be using Lloyds classification.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

Lloyds and ABS are about classification. These societies are different kinds of animals and a pleasure yachts unless it is a mega yacht is not a candidates for classification.

ABS will not get involved in anything less than 24 meters I think and Lloyds is not up to date with modern materials and building techniques employed by small boat builders so why would you bother with Lloyds?

Not correct.... I have had a 66ft fiberglass yacht built with regular inspections and plan approvals by ABS during construction and sea trials.

Lloyd's/ABS newsletters show that they are monitoring and certifying the use of leading edge materials for use in Shipbuilding.

Having said that... A successful new build is all about execution of a practical design using the properly chosen materials.

It would be a better use of money to choose a Builder with a proven track record and hire a knowledgeable Owner's Representative to constantly monitor the build execution to very detailed specifications (including access for maintenance boatie)

[Exile]

In other words, figure out a budget, go with a reputable mfg. who has a reputation for keeping keels & rudders on the boat, listen to the yard guys & the long-distance delivery skippers, get your choice(s) thoroughly surveyed, and go sailing. What people seem to be trying to tell you is that recreational boats are not subject to the same sort of regulatory scheme & "standards" that occasion the automotive & aviation worlds.

Maybe then I'll take you off my "Ignore" list.

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Not correct.... I have had a 66ft fiberglass yacht built and inspected by ABS during construction and sea trials.

Lloyd's/ABS newsletters show that they are monitoring and certifying the use of leading edge materials for use in Shipbuilding.

Having said that... A successful new build is all about execution of a practical design using the properly chosen materials.

It would be a better use of money to choose a Builder with a proven track record and hire a knowledgeable Owner's Representative to constantly monitor the build execution to very detailed specifications (including access for maintenance boatie)

Yours? Sounds interesting... What have you got?

Interested to ask you lots of questions if you have plus 60 foot yacht.