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Sailor_Hutch · 17-12-2012, 10:13

I recently saw an advertisement for a steelie, based on lake Ontario. It was part of an estate sale. The price was VERY good, based upon comparison shopping the US east coast. One thing had me wondering about it though ... and that was the two masts (ketch) ... which were carbon fiber unstayed masts. Anyone have experience with those?

**Jim Cate** · 17-12-2012, 14:23

Sailor Hutch, I won't try to argue with your research on the net, but as someone who has actually BEEN CRUISING in the SP since 1987, I don't think that you have a good grasp of reality. If one wanders through the anchorages down here, one will indeed find more steel boats than on either coast of the USA. However, the vast majority of the boats that are actually sailing down here are FRP, just like nearly everywhere in the civilized world.

Every year some FRP boats go onto reefs and are lost. Every year, some steel boats go onto reefs and are lost. A few of each category are saved, and yes, I suspect that the fraction of steel that is saved is larger. And, since the absolute number of FRP boats is much larger than that of steel, there are indeed more FRP boats lost.

But, you do not NEED to have steel to cruise (with safety) in the SP. And to say

"In searching for a steelie, I've found that most of them are in the South Pacific (go figure). They use steelies and cats, and once in a while a fiberglass jobber that stays away from the reef like a mosquito from deet." is simply ignorant.

If a steel boat is what you want, why go for it, mate. There are some very nice steel yachts out here. The nice ones have lots of maintenance hours invested and are not cheap; no really nice boats are!. But you most definitely do not NEED a steel yacht to cruise the SP.

Cheers,

Jim

boatsail · 17-12-2012, 14:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy
Don't you mean "best anchors"? eheheheheheh
Most of them are steel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

Most of them are steel.

Thats because steel does better than glass resting on the bottom

goboatingnow · 17-12-2012, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

There are definite concerns with steel, certainly, and I have a number of books on the necessity to galvanically isolate the hull, proper deployment of anodes and various o..........

But realistically, the world of sub-50 footers is 90% FG. Interestingly, the world of 50 degree N and S sailing is predominantly metal. Conclusions may be drawn according to their relevance to one's plans.

Sorry 50 degrees north encompasses everything from the north coast of France to the top of Norway. One of the largest sailing and boat owning areas of the planet. It's is dominated by GRP, metal sailing boats are a compete oddity.

Dave

minisailor · 17-12-2012, 15:02

If Gypsy Moth were GRP where would she be. Early GRP boats had lots of material and resign and more resign modern day boat don't. Again there is no perfect boat building material but one comes close and that has not even been mentioned on this thread. That material is epoxy saturated wood or better know as cold molding. Almost as strong as steel but will not blister, rot, leak, rust, no electrolysis painted once every 10 to 15 years with a good two part paint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I am not sure the argument about strength or impact damage resistance really holds. Both steel and grp can give boats strong enough to take a grounding.

Gypsy Moth went hard aground on a coral reef. She got salvaged. She 'wasn't even grp' ...

b.

goboatingnow · 17-12-2012, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by minisailor

If Gypsy Moth were GRP where would she be. Early GRP boats had lots of material and resign and more resign modern day boat don't. Again there is no perfect boat building material but one comes close and that has not even been mentioned on this thread. That material is epoxy saturated wood or better know as cold molding. Almost as strong as steel but will not blister, rot, leak, rust, no electrolysis painted once every 10 to 15 years with a good two part paint.

There was a lot of damage to gypsy moth.

Dave

**hpeer** · 17-12-2012, 17:01

I would look here, one of the few on the market that I would consider.

1991 Waterline 44 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Sailor_Hutch · 17-12-2012, 17:22

JCate: Apologies ... I probably have errored on the words "once in a while."

HPeer: Nice looking Waterline 44. I like this one as well:

Custom Waterline Steel Center Cockpit Ketch for Sale at Anchor Yacht & Ship Sales

I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that I want a steel ketch, 40 to 46, and maybe a little beamy ...

minisailor · 17-12-2012, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

I would look here, one of the few on the market that I would consider.

1991 Waterline 44 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yes a very nice design and Waterline is a reputable builder.
Take a look at Grayham Radford's designs simply google him at Grayham Radford yacht design and look at his design for the Radford 450 which is in his archives. Fantastic sailor under light and heavy conditiions, long waterlline 42foot on a 45 foot boat gives her a theoretical hull speed of just short of 9 knots which she does very easily with a very sea worthy motion in the worst of condition. Can you tell I sail one, it's steel and has all the right coatings built in 2002 and we have put 10 to 15 thousand miles on her with no real problems. Strong, dry, no more maintance than varnish trim and teak deck would be.

Algol · 19-12-2012, 00:51

Hi guys!I own a Alan Pappe cruiser 38 steel cuter.Honestly i would prefer grp because I'm not much of a welder.Bigest
problem i saw was with rust in hard to reach places.Dont know what to do about it When i got the boat some of the deck gear bolts on the cabin top were leaking they are sealed now but i cant reach some of those places.Also there is a problem with condensation.I am a liveaboard so as soon as i start heating inside all the places that are not insulated are wet,On the plus side when I first hauled out i saw that previous owner bumped the keel somewhere and judging by the dent it was at full speed.Now if it was a grp boat im sure he would destroy the boat and i have only a dent in the keel(15mm steel plate)

**hpeer** · 19-12-2012, 01:29

Hello Algol,

Welcome aboard.

Fellow Pape owner here. There is at least one other, Conachair, who has an Ebbtide 33 steel cutter. Where was your boat built?

Our 44 is probably much like your 38. I presume you have a outboard rudder? Our rudder comes up through a lazarette, which adds some overhang.

I too have wracked something very, very hard at speed, and found no damage.

Where are your "hard to reach places?" Perhaps we can share ideas. I had some rust in the very tip of the bow. I taped a grinder to a pole to do the cleaning, then did the acid bath, primer, paint treatment. Last I looked it was OK.

Surface rust above the water line that stays dry is one thing. Rust in a bilge or other area that gets repeatedly wet is another.

Algol · 19-12-2012, 01:47

My boat was built in Croatia,it is not very simlar to ebbtide i have a rudder inside the after peak and wheel steering.I recentli chipped and painted the after peak and there are places just below the deck I cant reach,also inside the chain locker.Fortunately all the rust is in the dry places but i will need to dismantle some of the interior to get to it.I couldent find a very similar boat to mine on the net,the previous owner showed me the original plans signed by the disigner wouldnt tell me wher he got them.