Reefing line suggestions (type)

[chowdan]

Hey all

I am looking to replace my aged reefing lines. They appear to be trophy braid or similar(fuzzy outside, polyester line).

Currently they work fine, but are showing signs of age and due for replacement.

I have a 2 line system, poly line is tied to the boom and runs through the cringle, to the end of the boom, through a sheeve, through the boom out near the goose neck, down to a winch and cleat on the mast(will likely put a rope clutch to free up the winch). the tack of the sail is a dyneema line on a hook that gets attached to the cringle strop once the sail has been lowered and then tightened up via main halyard.

Not an ideal setup and I'm still working on getting things more organized and what not, but in the mean time, what does everyone recommend?

I am okay with the poly line at the clue, with the thought that as a gust blows through, the line should stretch a bit to take off the load, but I'm unsure if that's actually a benefit that we don't want?

I was looking at something like Endura braid or Warp speed II but Warp speed is quite stiff and I'm not certain that would be best for reefing - Plenty strong though

My biggest question is - is high tech stuff worth it for reefing lines? Does having stretch in the system actually benefit with helping take loads of the cringle?

[SailingHarmonie]

In general, high tech lines are best avoided for reefing lines. They are quickly destroyed by the sharp bend they make at the clew, and the lines when fully loaded are quick short, so stretch isn’t a big deal. Loads are also not all that high.

Stiff lines are also bad news. They make the whole process much more difficult than it needs to be.

A lot of stretch would be bad, especially in a gust. It would add draft to the sail. Exactly what you do not want to happen, it in the real world it just doesn’t happen.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

In general, high tech lines are best avoided for reefing lines. They are quickly destroyed by the sharp bend they make at the clew, and the lines when fully loaded are quick short, so stretch isn’t a big deal. Loads are also not all that high.

Stiff lines are also bad news. They make the whole process much more difficult than it needs to be.

A lot of stretch would be bad, especially in a gust. It would add draft to the sail. Exactly what you do not want to happen, it in the real world it just doesn’t happen.

Hmmm not to hijack the thread but we were just looking at higher tech lines for reefing. Figured it would make the sail a little easier to raise by hand if the lines were lighter.

We have 1/2" lines that go through a jam cleat at the boom, so they have to stay 1/2". I had figured they were surely overkill and wouldn't have a problem?

[fxykty]

There’s no problem at all using Dyneema lines for reef lines and as they eliminate squalling (the stretch movement through the clew ring with every wave and wind gust) they are arguably better than polyester alternatives (you really should secure the clew when using these). They can be smaller diameter and will be much lighter.

We use single braid UHMWPE lines, 8mm diameter for our reef clew lines (the boat used to have 14mm double braid polyester). Same as the OP, we use UHMWPE strops with a hook for the tack rings. Since the lines are much smaller diameter and quite slippery, we splice in an inner line and add a cover for the portion that needs to be gripped in a jammer (that makes the 8mm line about 12mm in diameter). We also sew on a Dyneema cover for the portion of line that goes though the clew ring when reefed.


Note that with our new main we specified LFRs for the clew rings - with our previous main we mounted LFRs on a strop (search CF for the Bullseye Weave instructions) through the SS clew rings to avoid the sharp bend.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Snip

Note that with our new main we specified LFRs for the clew rings - with our previous main we mounted LFRs on a strop (search CF for the Bullseye Weave instructions) through the SS clew rings to avoid the sharp bend.
Attachment 274103

Now that’s a cool trick

[Jammer]

Fxykty's setup is what all the cool people do. Except some people use leftover cover from another project to partially sleeve some Amsteel rather than stripping part of the cover off the Endura. I'm told you only have to do the part where the clutch holds it.

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Now that’s a cool trick

Clew blocks are also a thing. I'm told that the main drawback (no pun intended) is that they turn a flogging sail into a mortal hazard.


I have a furling boom so I don't actually know anything.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Fxykty's setup is what all the cool people do. Except some people use leftover cover from another project to partially sleeve some Amsteel rather than stripping part of the cover off the Endura. I'm told you only have to do the part where the clutch holds it.





Clew blocks are also a thing. I'm told that the main drawback (no pun intended) is that they turn a flogging sail into a mortal hazard.


I have a furling boom so I don't actually know anything.

I think I’d rather be smacked by a flogging lfr that a bock, ouch

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I think I’d rather be smacked by a flogging lfr that a bock, ouch

Yes, our old main had two giant, very heavy Selden blocks for first and second reefs (and just a SS cringle for the third reef). Really happy to not have those on the back of our main anymore!


I’ve seen new sails, particularly for racing, that have no cringles for the reef clews but instead LFRs on webbing hanging behind the leech. It works, but I don’t really like stuff hanging off the back of the sail that can hang up in lazy jacks or running backstays or (for single hull types) permanent backstays.

[DEAN2140]

What is an LFR?

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

What is an LFR?

LFR = low friction ring. Antal is the most notable supplier.

We have done the same thing as fxykty. On our 43 ft boat, we use 6 mm dyneema. In the area where the clutch and final winching occurs, we run some light line, maybe three or four millimeter, down the center of the dyneema. Then we take some left over cover from other lines, put it over the top and whip the ends, so this is about 10 ft where this is treated in this fashion. Where it goes around the boom and up through the cringle, maybe four or five feet total, we also put some cover over it there. For a 43 foot sailboat, 6 mm dyneema is so overkill its strength is just not an issue.

A lot of benefits to this. But perhaps the biggest is there is just so much less crap out there. Less line against the sail, less to stuff into the sail bag, and when you reef the sail, less line in the cockpit. I know it's the same length, but it is half the size and dyneema is so much more flexible it just takes so little space.