Pacific Seacraft 37/40

[deluxe68]

We are shopping for a blue-water cruising boat and will be looking at PSC 37 and 40 boats in a few weeks. The only bad things I have read about these boats is that they lack storage because of the short waterline and narrow width. That and the aluminum fuel tank on older boats. Anything else in particular I should look at on these boats?

[RainDog]

Items that often need to be replaced on older boats include:

- chainplates. Try to find a surveyor that checks the chainplates
- lids for the water and holding tanks. Older boats had wood covers. If they have not already been replaced, plan on doing so. Fill the tanks before the sea trial and see if they leak.
- fuel tank as you mentioned.
- chck underside of companionway slide. Water damage here is very common

[fugue]

We owned a Pacific Seacraft 37 for 23 years and cruised her on the west coast of the US. We bought a Pacific Seacraft 40 to get that little bit of extra room. We have never regretted it. There are a number of things you can do to either boat-such as add the overhead cabinet in the galley between the galley and the settee-to increase storage. Both boats have large lazarettes that will hold all the tools you will need, plus spares. We cruise with two people but keep the quarter berth open for guests. The shower in the 40 is our wet locker, so we have lots of dry storage in the head. Under the floorboards and settees is a ton of storage, too.

What you will be short on is deck space, particularly in the stern. Plan your anchoring, wind vane, outboard, etc., locations carefully. The Crealocks are all beautifully balanced, so a belowdeck autopiot may not be necessary, freeing up more room. We've crossed the Pacific and sailed from Washington to Panama using a Raymarine Tillerpilot attached to the "tiller" secured in the slot of the Hydrovane. After 6 years it got some water in it, so we gave it to a friend who fixed it. We carry a spare Tillerpilot (they're relatively cheap) and it takes ony a minute or two to switch them out. We also decided against pressure water and a hot water heater, and have never felt inconvenienced-we heat water on the stove for a tank in the shower and use a foot pump-telephone shower combo. That frees up more room.

The galley can allow you to cook as elaborate a meal as you care to fix. I have 76 different herbs and spices aboard and also sprout greens in my galley. The freezer in both boats is enormous and the fridge is more than adequate. I'd love some sort of pull-out counter to use when preparing a complex meal for guests, though.

You'll find plenty of room in either boat-we've seen a lot of them in our cruising, inclyding one 37 in Tonga with 5 people aboard. The 40 has slightly better seakeeping ability (it's 50% heavier than the 37), but I prefer the tiller on the 37-- it steers like a dream and you can pop it into a slip or a tight anchorage without breaking a sweat. The cockpit was larger on the 37 because it had a tiller, not a wheel.

Both boats are much faster than you'd guess-we raced the 37 successfully against much lighter boats-and crossing the Pacific took us 19 days for 3100 miles, with no motoring except to get out of Puerto Ayora and into Taiohae.

You'll find you love the ride and can still have your toys.

[fugue]

Forgot to mention-ditto in agreement on Rain Dog's comments, plus check the _interior_ of the water tanks. So far _every_ Pacific Seacraft we've seen built before about 2005 has had blisters in the tanks. Ugly stuff, causing a foul taste (and possibly toxic). Our solution was to use a liquid latex made for commercial water tanks, etc. So far, so good.

Also, be sure the portlights don't leak. Might just need adjusting, but some boats' ports were improperly bedded (you're supposed to use that nasty black butyl rubber). If so, take out the port and check for rot, etc. Also, check behind the overhead upholstered trim panels for mildew and rot. Moisture from condensation gets up there (even in our So.California boat), grows mold, and rots the plywood panels. Not too hard to fix, but the smell can drive you nuts until you find it. ;^). Check drain holes under the floorboards between the different bilge compartments and under the toilet. Our (brand-new) 40 had construction debris clogging one of the holes, and misplacement of the support for the toilet bolts caused moisture from the shower in the 37 to pool. Kinda painful to reach, but all ended well.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by fugue

Forgot to mention-ditto in agreement on Rain Dog's comments, plus check the _interior_ of the water tanks. So far _every_ Pacific Seacraft we've seen built before about 2005 has had blisters in the tanks. Ugly stuff, causing a foul taste (and possibly toxic). Our solution was to use a liquid latex made for commercial water tanks, etc. So far, so good.

Also, be sure the portlights don't leak. Might just need adjusting, but some boats' ports were improperly bedded (you're supposed to use that nasty black butyl rubber). If so, take out the port and check for rot, etc. Also, check behind the overhead upholstered trim panels for mildew and rot. Moisture from condensation gets up there (even in our So.California boat), grows mold, and rots the plywood panels. Not too hard to fix, but the smell can drive you nuts until you find it. ;^). Check drain holes under the floorboards between the different bilge compartments and under the toilet. Our (brand-new) 40 had construction debris clogging one of the holes, and misplacement of the support for the toilet bolts caused moisture from the shower in the 37 to pool. Kinda painful to reach, but all ended well.

Fugue

Thanks for the info. We looked at a 37 and a 40 last weekend in Alameda. The 40 is by far our favorite due to the extra room and better cockpit ergonomics. The acres of exposed wood on deck mean lots of work so we were leaning towards a new boat with the "low maintenance" option. A new 37 is doable but at $512K+ the 40 is a bit much.

[Lojanica]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

Fugue

Thanks for the info. We looked at a 37 and a 40 last weekend in Alameda. The 40 is by far our favorite due to the extra room and better cockpit ergonomics. The acres of exposed wood on deck mean lots of work so we were leaning towards a new boat with the "low maintenance" option. A new 37 is doable but at $512K+ the 40 is a bit much.

A Westsail 43 or 42 is very similar. Can be had for much less then restored to your specs

[fugue]

The Crealock-designed Westsail seems like a good boat. The others won't have quite the performance but are also good candidates, I'd think. One tidbit of info: Stee Brodie, owner of Paxific Seacraft, says that he's had quite a few 37's in for retrofitting from wheel to tiller. We wholeheartedly agree. Bill Crealock told us there was no way to make the 40 a viable tiller-steered boat (and we bow to his experience and wisdom) but the wheel clutters the cockpit, makes it harder to get to the stern, is more complicated, and actually takes away a lot of the "feel" for steering. Since we use a TillerPilot to run the Hydrovane (and simply lock the wheel) we only use the wheel for in-close steering anyway. With a tiller you actually have more room in the 37's cockpit than in the 40, which has to have the wheel. The 40 has a keel-stepped mast that clutters up the cabin below, while the 37 mast is deck stepped. Still, both boats have large salons; we tie a 1" line lengthwise down the centerline in the cabin from V-berth to the support member in the galley to provide a low handhold and "fence" to help keep us from being jostled in really rough seas. The keel-stepped mast also makes a great holdfast.

Know that Pacific Seacraft will gladly provide premade cabinetry, cabinet "pieces" (such as doors, etc), and othe boat parts for any of their current models. They're great to work with and the quality is the same as on their new boats. If you need info on, for example, the maker of the portlights on a 1998 boat, they can usually provide that, too. You could buy an older boat and retrofit it, as Lojanica says.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by fugue

The Crealock-designed Westsail seems like a good boat. The others won't have quite the performance but are also good candidates, I'd think. One tidbit of info: Stee Brodie, owner of Paxific Seacraft, says that he's had quite a few 37's in for retrofitting from wheel to tiller. We wholeheartedly agree. Bill Crealock told us there was no way to make the 40 a viable tiller-steered boat (and we bow to his experience and wisdom) but the wheel clutters the cockpit, makes it harder to get to the stern, is more complicated, and actually takes away a lot of the "feel" for steering. Since we use a TillerPilot to run the Hydrovane (and simply lock the wheel) we only use the wheel for in-close steering anyway. With a tiller you actually have more room in the 37's cockpit than in the 40, which has to have the wheel. The 40 has a keel-stepped mast that clutters up the cabin below, while the 37 mast is deck stepped. Still, both boats have large salons; we tie a 1" line lengthwise down the centerline in the cabin from V-berth to the support member in the galley to provide a low handhold and "fence" to help keep us from being jostled in really rough seas. The keel-stepped mast also makes a great holdfast.

Know that Pacific Seacraft will gladly provide premade cabinetry, cabinet "pieces" (such as doors, etc), and othe boat parts for any of their current models. They're great to work with and the quality is the same as on their new boats. If you need info on, for example, the maker of the portlights on a 1998 boat, they can usually provide that, too. You could buy an older boat and retrofit it, as Lojanica says.

The boss would not go for a tiller. Been there, done that. We are trying to figure out the pro's and cons between buying a new 40 vs a used boat. One broker said to buy used because it would cost $125-150K to outfit a new boat (over base price) for bluewater.

[fugue]

There is a really nice 40 for sale (I'm assuming it's still for sale, anyway) in Cyprus. We sailed with this boat on the Blue Water Rally in 2010--"Bali Blue"--and she was well equipped and maintained. And--you'd get to start your cruising in the Med ;^)

[cheoah]

I wish I had a tiller. I bet they get big bucks for a conversion, but I'm sure the work would be quality, and they have the experience.

Sailed her downwind in gale conditions this summer, very pleased with the handling, but the seaway was a bit much for the Ray X5. I was a little scared I'd broach, so I had to hand steer for 24 hours. Will wait to add a vane when I convert to tiller. Wheel will work just fine for you, and does allow a chartplotter at the helm, and a happy wife. Trimming the jib is the only awkward thing for me but with another pair of hands wont be a problem for you.

I guess it is kind of a niche boat compared to other modern designs, but it has a lot going for it under sail. The creature comforts are all a bonus to me, and stowage/tankage sufficient even on my little boat.

My 1988 boat is in incredible condition. Ya, ya, everybody says that. Fact is, the German guy that sailed it, was more fastidious than I will ever be. His records are a mentor to me of sorts, as I now see how good of a job one can do taking care of a boat, and I often find myself thinking, "What would he do in this situation?" I only say this because I saved so much money buying an older boat, and hope you can find one used, that was skippered by someone that knew what the hell they were doing. So much happens to a boat as it is used, and maintained/upgraded by someone skilled, I think the boat can be much improved over a newly launched boat. Hope you can find a good used one.

[Phil Turner]

Be aware. Have seen several Pacfic Seacrafts with significant blister problems. Phil Turner

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Phil Turner

Be aware. Have seen several Pacfic Seacrafts with significant blister problems. Phil Turner

I believe this only applies to the early boats.

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

I believe this only applies to the early boats.

Pretty sure they switched to vinylester in 88 or so, with epoxy barrier coats on top of that. That's from memory, but my 88 has no blisters - knock on wood. Surely they would show up after 24 years??

[svseachange]

Also consider the Pacific Seacraft 34 also by Crealock. We are very happy with out'89. Only problem is leaky water tanks - covers need replacing. Very solid boat.

[keepondancin]

We owned and cruised a 37 for 10 years. It is just a nice boat. Sails the way it looks, comfortable in a seaway, well built, and has just beautiful lines. Storage space is greater than you would think. However, as a narrow beam boat, cabin space is limited. The 40 is a strong, good sailing boat also. A bit faster, with a heavier feel. A bit more beam, so you gaain some amenities. The chain plates on the 37 are external, and if I remember correctly, due to the beam, the chain plates are through the deck on the 40. Either one will not disapoint. I am sure PSC would love to build you a new boat, or, if you found an older boat, they can do a refit. More than likely, some of the employees that would do the refit, may have worked on the boat when it was new.