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Old 19-10-2010, 05:54   #31
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There've been lots of comments and I don 't want to put too fine an edge on this but here's a couple of points.
a. Going older you can buy a $250,000 boat for $.20 on the dollar (or less) and that buys you a lotta maintenance. And by doing it yourself (or paying to have it done) you know what you have.
B. Keep a five year old boat a few years and you have those maintenance issues anyway.
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Old 19-10-2010, 06:28   #32
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Maybe it shows how determination, seamanship and a bit of luck can be just as important as the boats design?

words of wisdom,,, thanks for posting that,,,
Thanks, although it could also simply be explained as “stating the obvious”?

This might be a bit off topic, but it really shows that no boat is going to promise you absolute safety? The most insidious thing about that storm is while everyone got an inkling beforehand that things could get rough, it was not to the last minute that the forecasters realised exactly where the low would form and how intense it was to become. One of the first boats to get caught in the maelstrom actually interrupted the race roll-call reporting they had just experienced 78 knot wind gusts, which luckily was enough to send the majority of the fleet for cover.

Still, it really amazed me how much damage those waves did to the boats. It was totally indiscriminate destruction and “imploding’ is not an understatement. While some hulls did rupture and even warp, one of the other biggest failures were cabins and decks caving in/cracking. Lexan and even inch thick glass portholes were broken and damaged.

Unfortunately it also amazed me despite race regulations how many of the victims where unprepared for what happened. Even just small things like not having floorboards and items in the cabin secured down, not carrying personal strobe lights or even not wearing life jackets.

Although it might sound morbid it is a very good read as far as knowing what to expect in a perfect storm situation. For instance, after the number of head injuries I will be packing my Gaff surfing helmet on the boat and covering it with reflective tape. It might not look cool, but could save my life!
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Old 19-10-2010, 07:52   #33
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this is worth the look

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&access=Public

needs some inside work, I know 2 people looking at it this week

38' Beneteau IDYLLE
Year: 1986
Current Price: US$ 8,000
Located In Dania / Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Engine/Fuel Type: Single Diesel
YW# 75839-2267815
outside and hull have been redone,,,, just the inside,, it is partly finished
hi,
we have also been looking on line at that yacht but as we are in Australia were worried about being scamed etc , would you be able to let me know what your friends think of it and weather its all legit when they go to look at it , im very curious
Thanks
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Old 19-10-2010, 08:57   #34
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hello!!
dont know much about sailboats, but I do know quality when I see it.

I am the owner of a 1964 Hinterhoeler sloop, the hull and deck is solid fiberglass, I mean extreamly thick compared to todays production boats.

has no balsa to wary aboute and the interior woodwork is exeptional, this boat will outlast me and my kids and take us anywhere the world over.

I am prowd to say that iv paid $2000 for this amasing sailboat

cheers
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Old 19-10-2010, 09:11   #35
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caribbean and south america. i have heard of folks doing OK in beneteau or catalina. but then again a well maintained pacific seacraft or island packet or caliber would be more realiable IMHO .. you will thank yourself after the first storm you encounter on the way
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Old 19-10-2010, 09:21   #36
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I wholeheartedly agree with much of what has been said here - the big variable is how well the previous owner(s) have taken care of the boat. Assuming the maintenance has been done and the boat is in very good condition, dollar for dollar, I would tend to go with an older, higher-quality boat.

I spent a bunch of time searching for my boat and started considering a Catalina because I could get a much newer one in decent condition in my price range and in the size range I was looking for. But I ended up with a 1968 Pearson Wanderer 30, and I'm very glad I did, because it is a very well-built boat.

The previous owner did a lot of work on the boat in the eight years he owned it, basically corrected a bunch of neglect from the guy he bought the boat from. It still needs a bunch of projects done, but in the meantime it is a perfectly sailable boat and I've overnighted on her a couple times and plan to do so as much as possible. And I'll knock out the projects here and there over time - but of course, for me, that's part of the fun of owning the boat - fixing her up.

Anyhow, I have no doubt that my 42 year-old Pearson is a better-built and more solid boat than the 20+ year-old Catalinas I had considered for the same (or even slightly higher) price. Mostly what she needs is aesthetic and a few maintenance items.

In the price range you're talking, you should be able to get a Bristol condition older boat that will be just as sound, seaworthy and reliable, but also better built, than a newer one. Also you should be able to get more boat for your dollar - I had been looking at 26-29 foot boats and ended up with a 30-footer by going a bit older.

As far as spending time on the hard, she hasn't been on the hard for more than a few days, or a couple weeks, for the past eight years. This pic was taken two days ago - Oct. 17, 2010:

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Old 19-10-2010, 09:42   #37
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I presume that naval architecture and manufacturing methods move on apace with materials and manufacturing technology. So, I would also assume that a hand-laid hull using older technology won't be as strong per given thickness as a modern hull designed using CAD, modern materials and vacuum bagged layup. For example, an inch of fibreglass won't stop a bullet but a kevlar vest will.

It seems intuitive that thicker is better, heavier is more robust, etc. But the state of engineering/manufacturing is making things lighter and stronger all the time. And on a very broad manufacturing basis.

That being said, a lot of the older boats are perhaps over-engineered but nonetheless, pretty, robust and a real credit to their designers to have us looking at them fondly 20 or 30 years later! That's a pretty proud legacy.
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Old 19-10-2010, 09:46   #38
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Older better vs newer?

I don't think the comparison is valid. A lot of older boats are not better. Plenty of folks are going all over the world in production boats. Reference MarkJ on this forum. The post about working on boats versus sailing is good advice. I have owned 30 year old boats and 10 year old boats. It mostly comes down to how they were maintained. Look at the boats doing the Puddle Jump or the ARC. You will see all types. Respectfully, folks that make blanket statements about what kind of boat you "must have" to cruise must have some sort of agenda.
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Old 19-10-2010, 09:58   #39
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respectfully, it is not the boat but the skipper and crew that makes it thru a storm.
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Old 19-10-2010, 10:14   #40
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I have owned 30 year old boats and 10 year old boats. It mostly comes down to how they were maintained. Look at the boats doing the Puddle Jump or the ARC. You will see all types. Respectfully, folks that make blanket statements about what kind of boat you "must have" to cruise must have some sort of agenda.
Very true.

Once you get beyond the marketing issues, most production boats are a glass vessel fitted out with the same infrastructure. They all share a host of common parts which bely the Ford/BMW/Mercedes comparisons. I own a 'Ford' with Yanmar engines, Jabsco this, and Lewmar that. And there is an insistance that 'quality counts', ergo, this or that brand is crap. Yet all are compiled from the same parts sourced from a few manufacturers. Whereas a Volkswagen shares no parts with a Peugot.
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Old 19-10-2010, 10:22   #41
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folks that make blanket statements about what kind of boat you "must have" to cruise





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Old 19-10-2010, 10:33   #42
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I agree it is all about maintenance on a older boat. We have a 32 year old CT and believe me there are plenty of these old girls that have not been well taken care. We were lucky in that our boat was never abused and owned by people that did not mind pouring large sums of money into upgrading even knowing they were lucky to get a fraction of it back (I guess they had the money to spare). You can bring these old boats back to cruising shape but seems like costly and time consuming project to me. It is enough work just maintaining a old boat so having to fix one up that has been abused seems like a bit much. Go with a well maintained older boat with possibly a re-fit or two already done and you won't be disappointed.
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Old 19-10-2010, 11:17   #43
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listen to the wife!!!

when visiting my hinterhoeller and a hunter the same day, the wife said speaching of the hinter you will bounce off rocks on this tank?

when viewing the hunter she said oh my good I can ponch a hole thrue this with a hammer!!!

now I have no prejudice and shurely dont wish to offend anny brand owners, but I have to agree with the wife.

needless to say both of us have no boat experience so this statement is only words
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Old 19-10-2010, 11:48   #44
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Didn't we just do this debate? Older vs Newer Boat for Future Cruising


For the record, I've never been so happy to be inside a flimsy, shoddy, poorly-built, fragile, unstable, and unseaworthy floating death trap as I am with my crappy Beneteau.

Even (gasp) while sailing! And we all made it back alive!! More than once!

(Honestly, I do feel a little remorse for all those who are stuck on dirt fixing up their "older, stronger" boats in the yard for season after season while we are out playing, but I also hope the mentality of "older is better" remains so I can sell my boat in 20 years when it is a born-again classic. Then I can buy another crappy, newer boat!)

We bought our boat for 135k back in 2008. Take a look at what 2006 393's are going for now....oh wait, weren't they supposed to loose all their value? Maybe in the first 2-3 years, but after that it really levels off. People that buy brand-new boats know this just as well as people who buy new cars.

Also don't forget to take a look a livability and above all what the better half prefers! Nothing of course can take the place of going out and stepping onboard a bunch of different boats.

Good luck in whatever choice you make, whether it is a floating death trap or a money pit firmly attached to dirt!
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Old 19-10-2010, 11:55   #45
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Quote:
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I agree it is all about maintenance on a older boat. We have a 32 year old CT and believe me there are plenty of these old girls that have not been well taken care. We were lucky in that our boat was never abused and owned by people that did not mind pouring large sums of money into upgrading even knowing they were lucky to get a fraction of it back (I guess they had the money to spare). You can bring these old boats back to cruising shape but seems like costly and time consuming project to me. It is enough work just maintaining a old boat so having to fix one up that has been abused seems like a bit much. Go with a well maintained older boat with possibly a re-fit or two already done and you won't be disappointed.
is so funny how folks keep trying to say these boats, once abused,yada yada yada...LOL.. ct- formosa-- same-same..... all have same intrinsic difficulties and are easily repaired as they were very very well designed and all parts are reasonably accessible. the price of repair reflects the imagination of the owner-repair -artist working on the boat.many repairs on these are merely backing plates rather than entire decks..LOL... good design, i think...some repairs are more structural---knowing the history of a manufacturer is almost as important as knowing all the previous owners' habits as far as maintenance is concerned.... there are problems with the materials used--but those parts seem to last as long as the made in usa ones--30 yrs max on aa chainplate--- go into the deal knowing what you have to replace intrinsically with the marque, and know exactly what you will need ot repair those and any other defects found in hte boat.
funny --i say i got mine for 10k and have to do less than 5k repairs-- is this incredible?? i think is right on, mon---- i am loving it.... there are more like this out there and will be even more--light repair older boats. heavy as well as light displacement...just have to look well and hard and know what it is you are looking at and for.....mine had all the tronix, i couldnt buy them alone for the price i paid for them and the boat.
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