Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-12-2015, 07:03   #46
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Florida
Boat: Jeanneau 44i SO
Posts: 139
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Many boats are capable of crossing oceans



I don't believe I said others would not, only that the IP also was capable.



You've seen the boat? Unfair advantage!
Actually I believe I have seen the IP since I have looked at about 20 of them in that range.



Definitely.
IP's aren't the only 'tanks' out there tho, and the no-tanks do fine too.

Just saying that sometimes a tank is nice have.

All in all, it really is a personal preference and no matter what boat you end up with, it'll always be a compromise.
Very true.
__________________

__________________
l2ridehd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 07:23   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SE Pennsylavania
Boat: shopping
Posts: 69
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Cruising boats are a little like houses, and a little like helicopters, and less like cars in this regard. They consist of a hull which is usually very long lasting and very low maintenance to which however are attached a multitude of different systems with varying useful lives, some of which are used up according to time and others according to hours, in different proportions.

Like a house, the useful life of the whole collection is nearly unlimited. But unlike a house, there is no real estate -- so no inherent residual value. What this means is that there is a point at which, and this point comes surprisingly quickly -- it makes no sense to invest in renovation, as the value afterwards will be less than the cost of just the renovation. This is somewhat less the case with desirable old boats like Swans or Hinckleys or Little Harbors, and is dramatically much the case with more ordinary production boats.

This is the main reason why cruising boats are so often money pits. Buy a 10 year old boat which has not had a major refit, and you will start replacing systems one after another, and doing other kinds of renovation, and the costs mount up. I made that mistake with my boat -- which was 8 years old, and in very good condition, lightly used with few hours and miles on it, but put back into intense use, the systems started failing one after another, and I have spent probably $150k on various renovations and replacements over the six years I have owned her.

I love my boat, and I probably haven't lost all that $150k, as she is holding her value very well, but I will never do that again. I would only ever do one of two things in future: (a) buy new; or (b) buy a boat which has recently undergone a high quality refit by a loving, well-financed owner (and not a superficial "fix it up to sell" refit).

Based on my experience, new boats are a great deal. Not only financially, but once reasonably shaken down, a new boat will allow you to spend less of your cruises fixing things, which will increase the quality of your cruising. And this is coming from a person who never buys new cars, for example, or new houses. If I ever have another boat, I will have it built new. Unlike real estate, boats have no inherent value except the thing itself. And unlike cars, boats aren't engineered to work basically without repairs for a certain lifetime, allowing you to buy into some part of that lifetime with a reasonable expectation that the remaining balance of that lifetime will be nearly as trouble free as the first part was.
very helpful post thank you. Many here have helped a lot. I was really sold on the IP but the Hinckley with it's fine looking finished wood, and lines
kept drawing me in, I was looking for an excuse to give I more than a passing thought despite its age. It is a beautiful boat. I prefer a tank.
__________________

__________________
icedog11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 07:36   #48
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,881
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Downside is that when you buy an older boat you buy the repairs and abide of all PO's.

That said --- with all respect to IP guys--- very few IPs are head-turning eye candy. Bermuda 40's are "classic plastic". I have read about older 40-yawls with 1"+ of hull thickness. If I was going to own a boat above 33' a B-40 would be on my short list, way ahead of anything built in the last 15-20 years.

Downside of the Hinckley is the bright work- let it go and the boat looks like crap.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 07:43   #49
Registered User
 
Highland Fling's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Scotland but sail in the Caribbean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461
Posts: 374
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
Any IP is twice the quality of any benny-many of who whose rudders and keels simply fall off and kill their crew!
Now that is just a stupid and crass comment uninformed and just flamming and adds NOTHING to this thread..

You tell that to Anita who's IP mast fell down when they were just sailing along in a light breeze and IP wanted nothing to do with the problem

Or the guy who was on the hard and his wife said "what was that 'ping' " only to discover it was the chain plate breaking.

Or the people with IP's who have had to rip their boat apart to replace leaking tanks.

Mild steel nails holding furniture modlues together on a boat is 'quality design workmanship' I THINK NOT

Using the wrong type of Stainless Steel for the chain plates with a bad design and poor welding then encapsulating it in GRP so that it cant breathe and it falls apart so again you have to rip a lot of the boat apart to replace the chainplates...

Hopfully with the correct SS this time BUT it will still have to be encapsulated into the hull side with GRP so again over time you will get crevice corrosion.

None of that is quality in my world, well yes it is actually poor quality.

I believe IP say replacing the chainplates is a 'normal' maintenance item........YEAH real Quality NOT!!!

Go get educated before you post any more rubbish
__________________
Now with 600AH of LIFEPO4
kindest regards
David
Highland Fling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 08:30   #50
Registered User
 
SYNADINE's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 23
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

I would definetly suggest to buy a newer boat. Why would you pay so much money and spend most of your time to fix the 30 years old boat?
Buy a french or german brand and keep sailing. Most of those new boats can sail much better then the oldschool boats especially in the marinas the old school boats are the ones with trouble.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
SYNADINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 08:34   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: SE Pennsylavania
Boat: shopping
Posts: 69
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYNADINE View Post
I would definetly suggest to buy a newer boat. Why would you pay so much money and spend most of your time to fix the 30 years old boat?
Buy a french or german brand and keep sailing. Most of those new boats can sail much better then the oldschool boats especially in the marinas the old school boats are the ones with trouble.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
holy lurker batman, glad you thought my thread was worthy of a post. thanks.
__________________
icedog11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 08:43   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,945
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
Now that is just a stupid and crass comment uninformed and just flamming and adds NOTHING to this thread..

You tell that to Anita who's IP mast fell down when they were just sailing along in a light breeze and IP wanted nothing to do with the problem

Or the guy who was on the hard and his wife said "what was that 'ping' " only to discover it was the chain plate breaking.

Or the people with IP's who have had to rip their boat apart to replace leaking tanks.

Mild steel nails holding furniture modlues together on a boat is 'quality design workmanship' I THINK NOT

Using the wrong type of Stainless Steel for the chain plates with a bad design and poor welding then encapsulating it in GRP so that it cant breathe and it falls apart so again you have to rip a lot of the boat apart to replace the chainplates...

Hopfully with the correct SS this time BUT it will still have to be encapsulated into the hull side with GRP so again over time you will get crevice corrosion.

None of that is quality in my world, well yes it is actually poor quality.

I believe IP say replacing the chainplates is a 'normal' maintenance item........YEAH real Quality NOT!!!

Go get educated before you post any more rubbish
Now now let's not get into boat knocking as anyone can find a long list on Benni's as well. I don't know of a brand that doesn't do damage to your pocket book . The best response so far has been Dock heads.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 09:08   #53
Registered User
 
SYNADINE's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 23
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by icedog11 View Post
holy lurker batman, glad you thought my thread was worthy of a post. thanks.

Hello lurker to you budy. Probably it wasn't worth.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
SYNADINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 09:34   #54
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

Friend of mine just posted on Facebook:

Quote:
I think when people hear we live on a boat they probably think we spend our days drinking piņa coladas and soaking up the sun. In reality, I would say 40% of the time is spent in places like this [an engineering shop] or a tool shop or something boat related... it's all part of the experience.
For 40% of your cruising time??

So, folks, buy wisely because you need 40% sleep time too so that only leaves 20% for life.





Mark
__________________
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:03   #55
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,311
Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

I've had some boat projects on my "to do" list for 5 years now. When it comes time to either work on one or go for a sail I ask myself if one of those projects will get worst if I don't do it today. If the answer is no, I go sailing instead.

Chose your boat wisely and you can have the same type of list, one that doesn't need to be worked on really!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:25   #56
Registered User
 
Dr. Sea's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Annapolis/ BVI
Boat: Oyster 55
Posts: 194
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces View Post
On a related note, does anyone here know of any analysis of boat depreciation? I'd guess it's model dependent, but I'd also guess that there is a generic lifecycle model for sailboats in general.

I'd be interested in what it would look like for Island Packets.

I'd guess they depreciate rather quickly initially, and then more slowly until their value sort of stablizes and is determined by whether all the components are working. Anybody have a general timeline?
I've been told different depreciation rates by different brokers and surveyors. Like cars, all boats don't depreciate at the same rate, and the kind of use and care a boat has experienced can vary greatly and influence the value greatly. Keep in mind the big "anniversaries" like the 10-year mark, but for a generic one-size-fits-all calculation, this sounds about right:
15% First year
12% Second year
8% Third year
5% Each following year
__________________
Dr. Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:31   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 278
Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

IP has done a great job of marketing, but what would be the other current builds in a similar quality range?

I'd like the IPs, but desire better performance characteristics. I like the Pacific Seacrafts, but they seem a little "too" bluewater if you know what I mean. (small cockpit, tight quarters)
__________________
WindwardPrinces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:35   #58
Registered User
 
Highland Fling's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Scotland but sail in the Caribbean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 461
Posts: 374
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Now now let's not get into boat knocking as anyone can find a long list on Benni's as well. I don't know of a brand that doesn't do damage to your pocket book . The best response so far has been Dock heads.
Wow Irony at work big time......lets not get into boat knocking......then does

I woudl suggest the OP looks at the Benetaeu First 42 ...lots less money and a truly classic boat that will take you anywhere you want to go.

Beneteau First 42 boats for sale - YachtWorld

just two in the USA

1983 Beneteau First 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1985 Beneteau First 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

OR if he wants a more modern boat and spends more dollars a Beneteau 411

Beneteau 411 boats for sale - YachtWorld

2002 Beneteau 411 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
__________________
Now with 600AH of LIFEPO4
kindest regards
David
Highland Fling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:44   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,359
Re: newer boat vs older in same price range

Quote:
Originally Posted by puffcard View Post
Question for the OP have you been on each boat? These two boats are as different as day and night. There's is more room on a Island Packet 29, than on Hinckley B40. One is a classic with a certain feel and has little room. The other is a fat boat with a ton of room. The B40 is a beautiful boat with her long over hangs, I delivered one from Norfolk the Long Island. Love the classy feel and the cult following it has, but that boat is like a mistress. Requires a lot of maintenance and money to keep her into the comfort she's grown accustom to. It's not the usual first boat or a first choice for going offshore. It's wet, low sided, hobby-horses badly, small tanks, narrow beam, gets knocked on her ass quickly. My suggestion is get on both boats and then go look at a doz more boats before you buy a boat. IP have a bunch of room to suit a liveaboard, most don't sail anything like a B40. This is a huge deci$ion, you need to make it a good one for you. One is the comfy big girl, who's nice to cuddy with at night. The other the high end mistress, is fun to take out and be seen with.

Remember it is easier to get a divorce, than sell a sailboat.
^^^^This^^^^ You need to get on the boats to decide. Fiberglass is Fiberglass. People probably thought Oyster was equal to a Hinckley until the one recently peeled apart. Is a Cadillac better than a Chevy? NO.. trust me, my Mother in law has had 3 Caddy's. Highest repair bills I have ever seen. Nothing I know of wrong with a Hinckley, I love the way they look! But that doesn't mean they are a better boat, but they have a better "Advertised Image". Bottom line is though... it's an entirely different boat style. By the way anyone how hard it is to change chainplates on a Hinckley?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2015, 10:47   #60
Sponsoring Vendor
 
YachtBroker's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kemah, Texas
Boat: 2006 Catalina 350
Posts: 154
Send a message via Skype™ to YachtBroker
Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

Personally I'd go with the IP for rock solidness and newer design. Not bashing Hinckley, (who could) but I think they are terribly overpriced for what they are. Small dated designs that sail on their ear and are fairly wet. But beautiful to look at. I prefer space and room. Of course the Hinckley will sail a circle around most IP's but what's your plan sailing wise?

Do be aware of chain plate and tank issues in IP's in the ages you are looking at. The chainplates are glassed in (supposed to last forever!) and can rust out. Tanks are under the floor and hard to remove without major construction of floor removal but at least once it's done they are then removable again. Holding tanks were especially notorious in IP's as well. Other than that they are solid boats and will last a long time.
__________________
Kent Little, CPYB
Kent@LittleYachtSales.com
1983-2016 Celebrating Over 33 Years of Professional Yacht Sales
Direct line-713-817-7216
Waterford Harbor, 800 Mariners Drive Pier 6/7, Kemah, TX 77565
YachtBroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
price

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List Price vs Offer Price in the $700K+ Range BlueWaterFever Dollars & Cents 8 29-07-2010 18:30
Older vs Newer Boat for Future Cruising Hornloaded Monohull Sailboats 161 19-06-2010 07:43
Financing Older vs Newer Boat - Eventual Depreciation swabbmob Dollars & Cents 33 11-07-2008 04:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.