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Old 12-03-2008, 14:24   #1
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morgan classic vs morgan oi

first post here, so i'll say hello to everyone.

just getting interested in sailboating and this weekend my family and i are going to visit my brother in tampa, fl. i have already booked a 2 hour sailing charter out of saratota, fl on a morgan oi 415, i think it's a ketch because it has 2 mast. enterprise is her name, sailed by captain kirk.

anyway, i was looking into those sailboats and noticed the morgan classic had a different type of keel. i was just trying to find someone who has sailed them both to compare them. is there any other difference, besides the price. the classic's seem to be twice the money. the classic also seems to be mostly a center cockpit also. in the future when i get ready to buy, i'll be looking for an upper 30' to lower 40 foot sailboat to coastal cruise on, comfort and roominess is higher on the list than speed.
thanks for all the advise.
gerald
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Old 12-03-2008, 15:28   #2
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Originally Posted by bluewater99 View Post
first post here, so i'll say hello to everyone.

just getting interested in sailboating and this weekend my family and i are going to visit my brother in tampa, fl. i have already booked a 2 hour sailing charter out of saratota, fl on a morgan oi 415, i think it's a ketch because it has 2 mast. enterprise is her name, sailed by captain kirk.

anyway, i was looking into those sailboats and noticed the morgan classic had a different type of keel. i was just trying to find someone who has sailed them both to compare them. is there any other difference, besides the price. the classic's seem to be twice the money. the classic also seems to be mostly a center cockpit also. in the future when i get ready to buy, i'll be looking for an upper 30' to lower 40 foot sailboat to coastal cruise on, comfort and roominess is higher on the list than speed.
thanks for all the advise.
gerald
I haven't sailed any of the classic Morgans, but I've sailed a bit on an OI 41. It is a very roomy boat, stable on a course and a popular design. Drawbacks to me, which aren't that important to you are; underpowered for sailing, need at least 10 knots of wind to sail, preferably more, makes lots of leeway upwind, it has always disturbed me watching the wake angle coming off of the stern. I've read messages by a couple of owners on other forums that they usually start the engine to tack, but I've never had to do that. I've been told, but have never verified that the OI 41 was designed for the Bahamas charter fleet with its draft of only 4'2". At one point there were many available for charter. Even though I've never sailed a classic Morgan, from the lines and reviews they are a much more traditional looking boat and a much better sailer.


BoatUS.com: Boat Reviews by Jack Hornor, N.A. - Morgan Out Island 41

John
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Old 12-03-2008, 15:37   #3
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i've been searching the net for info comparing them, but info on the classic is hard to find. i have also read where people said it was difficult to sail in low wind but it was very confortable ride. at 4 bucks a gallon, i'm not sure i want to be firing up the motor everytime the wind gets weak. maybe add some rowboat paddles for the crew. lol
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Old 12-03-2008, 17:37   #4
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I knew this guy that retired and bought one of these 10 years ago. He knew nothing about sailing and was attracted to the interior volume. The nice thing about this vessel is that it is strong and can go aground with relatively no problem. That is one of the reasons for its charter success.
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Old 12-03-2008, 17:48   #5
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I too have no experience with the Morgan Classic, but I have sailed on several O/Is. I think all the 36' and up O/Is were center cockpit - the 41s and up can be either sloops or ketches. They are shallow-draft full keeled, strong, heavy, slow, roomy boats with powerful engines and they make excellent liveaboard cruisers. They are also old - so condition/maintenance is critical, but you still see a lot of them going strong in the Bahamas/Caribbean.
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Old 12-03-2008, 20:23   #6
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from what i have been able to find so far is the classic has a more modern keel design, although deeper than the oi, so the speed is better and i guess the handling also. not sure on the other differences.
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Old 12-03-2008, 20:27   #7
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i know this is a newbie question, but exactly what is the imaginary number where a sailboat becomes fast and not considered slow?

low wind speed
medium wind speed
high wind speed
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Old 12-03-2008, 22:09   #8
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i know this is a newbie question, but exactly what is the imaginary number where a sailboat becomes fast and not considered slow?

low wind speed
medium wind speed
high wind speed
16
.
.
.
.
.
You'll get nearly as many answers as sailors. I have found a couple of articles by different yacht designers that say about a sail area to displacement number of 16 is considered the minimum for decent performance in light air. Racers would laugh at that low a number. Some hard core old school sailors say 13 is enough. More than one book says 12 puts you in the category of motorsailor. In some areas you almost never see light air so they don't care. I've gone on club trips where I have sailed in company of a Gulfstar 39, Morgan OI 41, and a modified Yankee Clipper 41. One of my new to sailing crew, when other boats on our trip were pointed out, said, They're not moving, do they mean to do that? On the other hand all those boats have a lot more living and storage space than I do.

Here's a database of boats and their specs. It also gives a brief description of what the derived numbers mean.

Sail Calculator Pro v3.5 - 2000+ boats

John
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Old 13-03-2008, 06:41   #9
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I like the older Morgans but have never been a fan of the OI series.

Sailing by it's very nature is a slow proposition. If you make 150 miles in a day your doing well.
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Old 13-03-2008, 09:22   #10
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The balance you're going to need to make is between comfort and performance. Think of a Porche and an RV. Speed vs Comfort. Of course there are some RV's that can go off road, there are some that have bigger engines but they're still RV's.

I'm always amazed that people traveling 6 knots, or 7 knots or up to 9 knots think they're going "fast". Winds change, sea states change, sails change to match the conditions, we sail what keeps the crew comfortable. An uncomfortable, tired crew makes bad choices put the boat and the people at risk. Some will say so does being offshore in bad wx. However, it's not the ocean that is dangerous, it's the land around it.

As my close sailing friend of many years was fond of saying, "Nothing goes to windward like a 747".

Fair Winds
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Old 13-03-2008, 13:18   #11
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Also, even boats that start out ‘fast’ will be slower once they’re loaded up for cruising. Probably, boats that start out heavy take less of a hit than light weight performance cruisers.

Maybe it’s different for multi-day passages or crossing oceans, but for island hopping around the Bahamas/Caribbean there isn’t much of a premium on speed. Most of the time you make glorified day sails and you plan them for the anticipated conditions. Of course, the anticipated conditions sometimes don’t materialize and you can wind up using the engine or going some place else or just not going at all. We had some close calls where we needed to make the next anchorage before night fall and more speed would have helped. But for the most part, the worst that can happen is that you anchor in the lee of an island or keep sailing until daybreak.

In the Caribbean we pretty much had a permanent reef in the mainsail, and if the winds were over 20 knots, we often had two. Comfort was much more important to us than speed - we were already in paradise and we weren’t in a hurry.

OTOH, the old Hunter 34 was an excellent light wind performer even after being overloaded with cruising stuff. In 10 knot winds we enjoyed shaking the reef out and yelling insults at fellow cruisers who poked along at 4 knots while we screamed past at 4 1/2. And, if we didn't suck at sail trim, we might have hit 5!
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Old 13-03-2008, 13:19   #12
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Under the proposition that any two boats, sailing on similar headings, are racing:
"Fast" is when you pass the other boat.
"Slow" is when the other boat passes you.
Everything else is relatively proportional ... and even the "OI" is lightning quick, when we're all at anchor.

What's a Morgan "Classic"?
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Old 24-03-2008, 19:43   #13
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The Morgan Classic is Catalina's redesign of the 41.They separated the keel and rudder.Hung the rudder on a skeg as opposed to the original long run of the keel .Increased the draft by 6 inches or so. They tweaked the interior and cockpit a wee bit.It sails a tad better .They eliminated the aft companionwat to make an enclosed shower below. Pretty nice changes if you aren't wed to the full keel.I am and love our old OI 41.
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Old 24-03-2008, 20:28   #14
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I also own a Morgan OI 414 and I really love mine alot too. Mine is in a boat yard getting professionally painted at this time. I am finally after many years, getting it the way I want it after much blood, sweat and tears. It's a big heavy duty boat that's been there and done that. I can't see myself ever selling it, as I know every inch of it, as I have owned it for many years and don't think I could ever replace it. I like the 4'2'' shallow draft as I am not limited to some great places like some deeper drafted vessel are. All boats are a comprimise in one way or the other. I happen to like comfort in my floating condo as sometimes these boats are referred to.
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:17   #15
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We chartered MORGAN O/I for years in the Carribbean with excellant results.... you won't win any race, but very comfy in foul weather.

When it came time to buy our own boat last year, we included MORGAN on the "short" list but ended up with an ENDEAVOUR E40, another BIG, HEAVY (25,000LBS)
COMFY boat. ENDEAVOURS, like MORGAN, were also in the Charter fleets........
We preferred the ENDEAVOUR for the classic looks, comfort, resale and design...

Just another option for you since there's a "ton" of sailboats on "yachtworld.com".

But MORGAN is a good choice!
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