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**David M** · 08-01-2010, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I don't have a clear understanding of all this talk about the beauty of a design being related to tradition, sprits, overhangs, etc.
Function determined beauty in the 18th century and function should define beauty now. Shouldn't we be most pleased, as sailors, with what works? Function rules! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

I think all one has to do is look at how ornate some of the Spanish galleons and other sailing ships were to realize how beauty (in their eyes) was also important.

anjou · 08-01-2010, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

I think all one has to do is look at how ornate some of the Spanish galleons and other sailing ships were to realize how beauty (in their eyes) was also important.

I think the stern of a Formosa 51 with its transom ports and sign writing is a great touch.

fishwife · 08-01-2010, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjou

Boat design has evolved from experience and needs, so I guess its only natural to arrive at a certain shape but there are some huge variations in the ratios of LOA-LWL.
Some are just 3 feet and others are 15+.
So if 3' does the job, why waste more money and space.

Maybe its a 'horses for courses' thing. Does a good stable roomy live aboard hull make a good sailing boat?
Can you realy have the best of both worlds?

Anjou, I've sailed in very thing from racing yachts to blue water cruisers until I finally got tired of being tippy, tippy all the time along with the coffee carryometer being frequently in the red zone. Perhaps you need to set your sights on a well found long range motor cruiser. Length for length, my boat has more room and stability than any sailing yacht I've ever been on.

Paige

paradix · 12-01-2010, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Mike

My clipper bow ketch is 46 foot overall, 40 foot on deck and 32 foot on the waterline. I love the look and happy with performance. For us she sails well, is solid and we love living on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjou

Your paying for 14' you cant live in.

That's a very singular way of looking at it... Maybe the thread should have been titled "best LOA/LWL for living aboard and minimising dock fees"...

Building extra LWL is expensive compared to adding LOA, so I would look at it from a sailing point of view: I can afford / desire this 32' LWL hull shape, therefore what LOA do I need for the optimum sail shape/area. If that turns out to be 46', then the boat described is perfect!

barnakiel · 12-01-2010, 15:30

1:1

Unless you like to:

1) pay for something you do not use,
2) have every nasty wave get you off course,
3) go slower than you can,
4) pay overheads in the marinas.

So on and so forth. But some boats with huge overhangs are SO beautiful that I understand (and perhaps even envy a bit) their owners.

b.

**s/v Jedi** · 12-01-2010, 15:38

Jedi is 1:1 too. Were 64' LOA, 64' LWL and 64' high... almost square but not completely, because we're 16' wide and 6'2" draft ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

paradix · 12-01-2010, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

1:1

Unless you like to:

1) pay for something you do not use,
2) have every nasty wave get you off course,
3) go slower than you can,
4) pay overheads in the marinas.

b.

Huh?

1) What is this "something" that you're paying for but do not use? Deck length and bowsprit are not useless, especially when they help determine sail shape/area...

2) Really? Does every boat without 1:1 ratio act so badly?

3) Will a 32' LWL boat with a 32' LOA sail faster than a 32' foot LWL boat with a deck and bowsprit extending LOA to 46'? Not if all else is equal. Sure a 46' LWL boat may sail faster, but that's in a whole different price range so not really relevant... And again, that's only assuming displacement hulls. There are some pretty fast, short LWL planing hulls out there.

4) True (in some marinas). And that was my point. Yes 1:1 is perfect if the thing you care most about is marina cost vs. living space. But that wasn't the original question...

Pappy Chris · 12-01-2010, 16:27

Seems to me if you are trying to slip a boat with a sprit of length you are probably going to be backing it anyhow (I do) so the slip only need be LOD measure. You might have to do a sell job on those marina guys and if they are reasonable and reputable you won't be paying that extra LOA price. It does work out. Remember you ARE the customer and YOU write the check (as long as they aren't the only game in town). OK, so I am one of those A-hole customers. I tend to only want to pay whats fair and it usually works. Make your case.

barnakiel · 12-01-2010, 16:49

Hi Paradix,

How come you deleted the text between my item 4) and the "b." Please, next time use something like (...) or anything, or else people here will start thinking I am against long and picturesque hangovers. Which is not the case ;-)

Cheers,
barnie

paradix · 12-01-2010, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Hi Paradix,

How come you deleted the text between my item 4) and the "b." Please, next time use something like (...) or anything, or else people here will start thinking I am against long and picturesque hangovers. Which is not the case ;-)

Cheers,
barnie

My apologies

I usually just edit quotes down to the part I'm responding to, in the interests of efficiency... Goes back to my days as a database manager I guess...

But your point is well made.

And I'm all for long and picturesque hangovers too. But it seems that most of my hangovers are just long and painful these days!

**James S** · 12-01-2010, 23:41

I put a very high value on deck space...fore and aft.

anjou · 13-01-2010, 00:16

The Arctic Lady pix are misleading. The one from the stern doesnt show the length of the fore deck to the same extent as the bow shot.
From the stern, the cockpit and roof appear to cover half the total length, yet from the bow its much less.

**James S** · 13-01-2010, 01:27

The loa is 47'-7" ........LWL 38'-10"
The stern tucks in deep just before the water line.
Its not a great picture...but if you blow it up and look really close you cal see the shape as it enters.
The rudder picture makes it a bit clearer.