Ingrid 38?

[clausont]

I am just starting to look 9into an Ingrid 38 that is available. I know nothing about this design so I was hoping to get some information here about it such as how well built they are, sailing characteristics, etc, etc.
I understand that they are a pretty sturdy boat.
All input here is welcome.
Celestialsailor?
Thanks all

[Ex-Calif]

I did a bit of googling and found this.

"Looking for Ingrid 38 owners

There is a new web site for Ingrid 38 users. It is in its infancy and hopefully with time (and someone with computer skills) we will have a regular web site. Our interim location is a "Yahoo group":Ingrid38sailboat : Ingrid 38 Owners Association Hopefully with time this group will lead to opportunities to share experiences, problems and hopefully facilitate drawing the community of this old and sturdy vessel together. Over 100 of the Ingrid 38’s were manufactured in the 70’s and 80’s and share their mold with other similar Collin Archer designs. Thanks Ken Gosling Sv/Allymar"

Here is another site with links to owners sites and some pictures.

Ingrid owners

My personal choice is to not consider a boat unless there is a popular and active owners group. It is really hard to own a boat and not have any access to technical expertise.

[clausont]

Thanks Dan
There is not much on the one listed as Ingrid Owners except the owner information and some good pictures. I joined the Ingrid owners group and will wait for approval so I can see what I can learn there.
I was really hoping for some first hand information on these from group members that may already have experience with these such as their good points, their bad points, how they sail (stability, pointing ability, speed, wet or not so wet, etc) how durable they are. Etc. I understand that at least one forum member has one of these boats in Hawaii.
The price on this boat is good, the owner has expressed an interest in taking our Cal 29 in as part trade since he says he is getting to where he and his wife can not handle the bigger boat themselves any more. He has said that the boat is in very good condition and well maintained so I am interested in this. I have not seen this boat in person yet so much remains to be seen.

[Amgine]

The Ingrid 38 is an Atkin's design, a larger version of his Erik double-ender which, in turn, was inspired by - but not designed like - the Colin Archer double-ender lifeboats.

Most likely the boat you're considering is a Blue Water hull; I believe they built ~200 hulls, about half or more as kits in varying levels of completion.

Over-all design comments: a reasonably bullet-proof design, not fast or nimble. Heavy displacement and focus on safety/comfort factors of Atkin's time. There are many rig designs, including a couple by Crealock. Good cruiser for a strongly independent individualist; low support. Legend.

You might spend a long time on light air passages, but you can carry a helluva lotta junk with you.

[Vasco]

Isn't the Alajuela a refinement of the Ingrid 38?

[Amgine]

Vasco: I don't know. I seem to recall the Alajuela as being the Blue Waters' hull but finish and rig by Alajuela Yachts. They seem to be of an age.

Here's the original Atkin designs, still for sale.

[Fishspearit]

I was just talking to a guy in a slip right across from me, a couple hours ago, and asked him what kind of boat he had, it looked sort of 'Westsailish' with the outboard hung rudder and tiller. Turns out it's an Ingrid 38. He told me the same thing as posted up top, that it's a Colin Archer design, they made about a hundred of them, and about half were factory finished. He told me the place that built them now builds Nordic Tug? or one of the newer tug cruisers. And that they still have the mold out back for the 38'. It's his second Ingrid, he got it for a song about 6 months ago and is heading offshore later this week for New England. He says it's built like a tank, and for what it's worth, he loves it.

[Fishspearit]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

My personal choice is to not consider a boat unless there is a popular and active owners group. It is really hard to own a boat and not have any access to technical expertise.

That's why I hang out here on CF, there's more technical expertise here than most of the owners sites I've ever visited.

[Amgine]

World Cruiser Yachts has the molds for the Westsail 32. I don't know if they have the Ingrid. There was a FG Ingrid made in Seattle/Tacoma area too; don't remember what the name of the company was but it was supposed to be more "true" to the Atkin design.

I was obsessed with these designs for some years, but ultimately determined that more modern underbodies may lose some of the benefits but the trade-offs more than make up for it. I suggest looking at similar-sized Perry designs, including his latest models in the theme.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by clausont

Thanks Dan
There is not much on the one listed as Ingrid Owners except the owner information and some good pictures. I joined the Ingrid owners group and will wait for approval so I can see what I can learn there.
I was really hoping for some first hand information on these from group members that may already have experience with these such as their good points, their bad points, how they sail (stability, pointing ability, speed, wet or not so wet, etc) how durable they are. Etc. I understand that at least one forum member has one of these boats in Hawaii.
The price on this boat is good, the owner has expressed an interest in taking our Cal 29 in as part trade since he says he is getting to where he and his wife can not handle the bigger boat themselves any more. He has said that the boat is in very good condition and well maintained so I am interested in this. I have not seen this boat in person yet so much remains to be seen.

I have not sailed one, I have only talked to an owner in Port Townsend. His comment was there was most likely more cabin space in the Cal 34 I was sailing at the time than was in the Ingrid.

I don't remember when you said that you were thinking about sailing farther afield, but for Puget Sound and 5 kids, I don't think that this is the boat for you. You'll be motoring a lot in the light airs around here since they were typically built with a low SA/disp, and with the narrow beam and canoe stern you're not adding much cabin space over your Cal 29.

IMHO

John

[clausont]

Thanks John, Amgine, Fishspearit and Ex-Calif -I had been wondering about the cabin space in the Ingrid. From what I am hearing about them, I like them quite well but still I don't think they are what I am looking for.
The cabin space is pretty much the clincher on this I think. I was looking at the interior photos of one and it seemed to have very little head room but that is hard to say from a photo.
I certainly am not interested in motoring any more than necessary either at todays fuel prices.
I had been considering the differences between a full keel and a modern fin keel and I am leaning strongly toward something with a fin keel to be sure. I was also looking at a Formosa 37' Pilot house, but it also has a full keel. That is not a bad thing, maybe just not quite what I am looking for. I would love to find a Cal 40, 41 or 43 in a price that I can afford, but I don't think I will find one.
But then, I'm not in any hurry either.
So I guess that I will keep looking.

[abigweasel]

Originally Posted by clausont

I am just starting to look 9into an Ingrid 38 that is available. I know nothing about this design so I was hoping to get some information here about it such as how well built they are, sailing characteristics, etc, etc.
I understand that they are a pretty sturdy boat.
All input here is welcome.
Celestialsailor?
Thanks all

I've been an Ingrid 38 owner for almost 7 years and they've got their good points and bad points, like anything. Basically a sound boat though quality/design of interiors will vary wildly depending on who finished the boat. Engines are a mixed bag of junk and engineering excess but after running my boat with the old Volvo MD2, it's 10 horses don't inspire much confidence and I'm looking at a replacement. There really is no standard Ingrid but the hulls are built very solidly with no blistering problems or rot issues. I would describe my boats accomodations as 'primitive' but the real joy is not sitting down below watching the tube but sailing the thing. Sailing and seakeeping characteristics are some of the best I've ever encountered. My particular Ingrid is an aluminum masted ketch. IMO, light air sailing on the Ingrids is very good. My full press of sail is over 1000 sq ft and I have yet to rig my mizzen staysail. The Ingrid is much more nimble than a WestSnail--those things are pigs, but it's still a full keeled boat. I think the full keel (or a cutaway full keel) is the best for open ocean. The simple steering gear is a cruising godsend, as spare steering cable, chain, belts, pins, and other Rube Goldberg-esque hardware is unneccesary. Other great things about Ingrids (or just MY Ingrid): windows and hatches dont leak a drop and Bluewater Yachts used bronze for the chainplates, turnbuckles, etc... Try that on some modern boat. I have no idea what the interior is on the boat you've looked at, but if the boat has good rigging and sails, snap it up. It's getting more and more difficult to find that kind of solid construction.

Also, I'm not some ancient mariner but 28 yrs old and have sailed most modern designs. I didnt buy my Ingrid out of some bleary-eyed fit of nostalgia but with the practical idea that it was the best tool for the job of offshore sailing. Oh yeah, and the price wasnt too bad either. Sorry I'm a little late with my post, but at least it's within the same year! Either way, good luck with the boat search, they are all fun in the end.

[clausont]

Interesting you should post this just now - I just sent off an inquiry to another Ingrid owner with the questions you just answered about your boat. I appreciate your thoughts and opinions on the Ingrid.
The one that I am looking into is a cutter rigged boat. I have had a small cutter rigged boat in the past and loved it. I have looked at a lot of boats in the last few months but I keep coming back to this Ingrid. To be sure, it does need some work.

[roverhi]

The Alajuela and Bluewater boats were both derivations of Atkins Ingrid design. They were not copies of each other, other than their Ingrid origins. They just happened to be produced at about the same time. IIRC there was also another Ingrid copy made in the PNW and one from Taiwan.

The Aluejela was built by a guy who wanted to build a quality boat with good sailing performance. They had all lead ballast and a goodly tall stick to enhance sailing performance. Fit and finish of the molds and woodwork was very good. Believe he played around with Atkins original hull design but don't know to what extent. The Alajuelas were mostly factory finished so quality is pretty consistant and resale higher than the other Ingrid copies.

The Bluewater boats were mostly kit boats, many with custom decks as they didn't come out with a deck mold at first. The ballast ratios are all over the place with many using steel to cut costs. Rigs tended to be ketches like the original Atkins design but every other kind of rig was tried on them, even gaff. Bluewater was pretty much a faithful copy of Atkins original lines. With a Bluewater, you've got to do your due diligence. The quality of build and materials is all over the place as is the interior layouts. They are good boats but most weren't built to the same standards as the Alajuela.

The Westsail was the first double ender that Atkins designed. Some guy got Atkins to design the boat based on the Redingskoit(sp) Life Boat design by Colin Archer. Believe it was the Norwegian Government wanted a stock Lifeboat design for North Sea rescue work. They hired Colin Archer to coalesce the best of the existing boat designs into a set of stock plans. The Redingskoits were 48' on deck, IIRC, and are similar in appearance but not the same as Atkin's design. From what I heard, the guy who initiated the design by Atkins stiffed him. Atkins sold the plans as a stock set to recoup his investment.

The Atkins Eric/Thistle and Westsail are pretty good boats but!! The beam is carried well forward and aft which resulted in pretty bluff bow that is hard to drive to weather when the seas are running. It is a real benefit when running off the wind in a serious blow as the bow doesn't bury and cause a pitchpole, however. The Ingrid was a refinement of the Eric/Thistle design, basically stretched out to provide a finer bow and stern lines for enhanced sailing ability. The interior of the Alajuela, for one, is hardly much more roomy than a W32. We almost sold our completed W32 kit boat and bought one of the first Alajuela Hulls. Decided it was better to go cruising than be a boat builder since there wasn't much interior difference. Having said that, the W32 has the interior space of many forty footers of the era and is big enough for a couple to live on forever.

As far as sailing abilities, they won't outrun a fin keel boat in light air because of the wetted surface. With a bit of wind, they will do 7+ knots day in, day out with a vane doing all the steering, however. It's not that they won't sail in light air, it's just they won't be as fast as a fin keel boat. Also be aware that the Ingrid design displacement is around 28,000#s, just a tad heavier than typical beantoad.

Aloha
Peter O.

[clausont]

Excellent information Roverhi. I have been hoping to find this kind of comparative information. The one that we are looking at is indeed a Bluewater and the owner has mentioned that the joinery work left a little to be desired. He has specified some of the items that will need corrected. I have seen one in our marina and they seem to have a lot of deck space but I have been unsuccessful at contacting the owner who I believe lives aboard with his sons. I hope to get an idea of the interior space before traveling to see this other one. That may not really be a good indicator though if each one is built according to the owners layout.