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Old 04-06-2014, 16:05   #76
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Re: In Mast Furling

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The sail is not blown out? That really, really matters. As I've said before, this means you must replace a furling main more often. But they cost much less than a standard main, so the cost works out the same or even cheaper for the furler. Unless you do as I do and spend the difference getting the very best furling sails you can...
Maybe this is a "newb" question, but hey - I'm a newb!

What makes a furling main so much less expensive than a standard main? Lack of battens?
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Old 04-06-2014, 17:12   #77
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Maybe this is a "newb" question, but hey - I'm a newb!

What makes a furling main so much less expensive than a standard main? Lack of battens?

Lighter cloth.
No reef points.
No battens.
Less sailcloth.
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Old 04-06-2014, 17:58   #78
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Re: In Mast Furling

I love my forspar inmast furler. The lack of a roach is not a problem because the head sail are the main power and the main is used to balance the helm. In anything above 10kts, the main is reefed slightly to keep the helm balanced. I image that in really light winds, a roached sail would be better, but then again, consider adding a drifter to your inventory.
As a single-handed sailer, a in mast or boom furler is the way to go.
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Old 04-06-2014, 18:03   #79
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Re: In Mast Furling

I'm sort of coming to grips with my inboom furling system myself, it was set up wrong, angle of the boom is critical to it's operation, but I think I'm going to end up liking it.
Why do I see so many in mast furling systems and so few furling booms?
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Old 04-06-2014, 18:25   #80
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Lighter cloth.
No reef points.
No battens.
Less sailcloth.
Ahh, thanks for the clarification!
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Old 04-06-2014, 18:46   #81
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Re: In Mast Furling

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But, that is just where you NEED the advantages that are supposed to be there with a roller! And, apparently Dockhead's setup does work under such conditions. What is different about his arrangement (other than it being on a fairly big boat and sail)?

Jim
Can you reef without heading upwind? All the boats I've sailed on with traditional mains also required turning upwind at least until the sail luffs in order to reef.

Frank
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Old 04-06-2014, 19:02   #82
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Can you reef without heading upwind? All the boats I've sailed on with traditional mains also required turning upwind at least until the sail luffs in order to reef.

Frank

Any boat that cannot be reefed on most points of sail is not a bluewater cruiser in my opinion.

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Old 04-06-2014, 19:09   #83
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Lighter cloth.
No reef points.
No battens.
Less sailcloth.



Also no slugs/batt cars, no headboard, no stack pack/dutchman, simpler construction, etc. Its almost like building a jib instead of a main. Don't know about lighter cloth, I have one main which is quite heavy, and one mizzen. Had them built extra super beefy, still cheaper than they would have been with all the extra hardware of a traditional main.
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Old 04-06-2014, 21:18   #84
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Originally Posted by GeoPowers View Post
Can you reef without heading upwind? All the boats I've sailed on with traditional mains also required turning upwind at least until the sail luffs in order to reef.

Frank
No, not readily, and that is why I was asking the question. I thought I might find out why Dockhead's works where others reportedly do not.

But what is the point of your snippy response? I thought we were talking about boats with in mast furling, not my boat.

Jim
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:02   #85
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Re: In Mast Furling

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No, not readily, and that is why I was asking the question. I thought I might find out why Dockhead's works where others reportedly do not.

But what is the point of your snippy response? I thought we were talking about boats with in mast furling, not my boat.

Jim
Snippy response? All I was asking was if you could reef heading downwind, since I inferred from your post that possibly you could and wanted to see how you did so (especially the tack). Perhaps a topic for another thread though.

Anyway, at the risk of causing more bickering I'll interject what we do. We typically don't reef heading downwind, but head up at least enough to have the sail luff as I feel it is worth avoiding the possibility of getting a jam in the furler (USSpar roller furler). That said, we have reefed downwind in the past, and it is easier to do on a port tack in lighter conditions (say less than 20 kts?). Any more wind and the pressure on the sail against the mast slot would be difficult to overcome. This would be more pronounced for us on a stbd tack, since our slot is on the stbd side of the mast. My thought process is that the friction/pressure the sail at the mast could cause kinks/wrinkles in the sail while furling, which could cause jamming. We have both vertical batten main and battenless, and of course the VB main is much more unforgiving when trying to reef downwind.

We've never had a full-on jam, but have had minor issues that caused more effort unfurling the sail (never had issues furling it). These were caused by improper boom angle, too much halyard tension, and not releasing pressure from the vang. Basically OE.

Frank
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:11   #86
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Why do I see so many in mast furling systems and so few furling booms?
?????
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:49   #87
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
But, that is just where you NEED the advantages that are supposed to be there with a roller! And, apparently Dockhead's setup does work under such conditions. What is different about his arrangement (other than it being on a fairly big boat and sail)?

Jim
Mine works fine downwind, in any amount of wind. In fact, I can furl or unfurl on any point of sail and in any wind strength, which is the key benefit of the whole arrangement. Ironically the one point of sail where in-mast furling works poorly happens to be the way you actually hoist and reef a full batten main -- dead into the wind.

I think it may be a matter of technique -- you have to pay attention to the shape of the sail as it goes into the mast, and fiddle with it if necessary (outhaul tension, boom angle, etc.) to allow it to go in smoothly without any big folds, which is what causes jams.

Not having to go head to the wind to change the reefing has so many advantages. For one thing, you don't have to roll away the headsail. For another, going head to the wind can be horrible in really strong conditions, even impossible.

The ease of reefing and unreefing, the infinite range of adjustment, and the good shape when reefed, means that you are much more likely to have just the right amount of sail up, than you would if you had regular reefing. This is another big plus. But a boat with regular reefing, otherwise identical to yours, will walk away from you in lighter conditions. There's no free lunch!
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:12   #88
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Re: In Mast Furling

We are talking cruising here not racing. So we don't care about any rule limitations to sail area, only healing moment to forward thrust. So if a boat with regular reefing will walk away in light conditions.... I assume that mostly a factor of sail area along with the better shape of the non furling main? If so, the sail area issue could be taken care of with a little taller rig for the RF rig. Is it possible to get enough added light wind performance that way to also overcome the shape difference?
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:11   #89
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Re: In Mast Furling

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We are talking cruising here not racing. So we don't care about any rule limitations to sail area, only healing moment to forward thrust. So if a boat with regular reefing will walk away in light conditions.... I assume that mostly a factor of sail area along with the better shape of the non furling main? If so, the sail area issue could be taken care of with a little taller rig for the RF rig. Is it possible to get enough added light wind performance that way to also overcome the shape difference?


Exactly how my boat is set up, it was designed for a furling rig. Just has extra mast height to make up the lost sail area of the roach. This also puts that sail area up higher, where there is more wind in light airs. Only drawback is more weight aloft. While this does reduce ultimate stability, it also makes for a more comfortable ride.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:12   #90
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Re: In Mast Furling

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?????
Hasn't been around as long. Generally boom furling is preferred to in mast.
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