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Old 26-08-2012, 10:34   #1
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Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Just seems like a simpler setup to just run some wires to a ignition switch, especially since i for one would only have a 3 and a half foot wire run. Simpler less chance of failure, right? Im not sure how much amp runs thru that exciter wire, ide have to test it to see., If it isnt too much i can just use a ignition switch i suppose
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Old 26-08-2012, 10:51   #2
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Re: has anyone done away with their starter relay?

Are you talking about removing the starter solenoid? I don't think the ignition switch can handle the 100's of amps of current, let alone take an appropriately sized wire.

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Old 26-08-2012, 11:49   #3
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Isn't 30 amps about the standard fuse for small engine ignition wires to the solenoid? And why would you NOT have this wire fused? I don't understand.
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Old 26-08-2012, 11:51   #4
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Let us know how it works out.
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Old 26-08-2012, 12:10   #5
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Most pre-80's cars ignition run an ignition wire to the starter solenoid without a relay, relays are handy when the run is long however a starter solenoid is essentially a relay ie a smaller draw actuates a heavier hit ie the starter moter itself... don't see the problem on a short run.. What would i know????
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Old 26-08-2012, 12:14   #6
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Are you referring to removing a slave solenoid, and running the start wire (usually yellow w/red stripe) directly to the throw-in solenoid on the starter?
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Old 26-08-2012, 12:53   #7
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

exactly what im saying, its not like all the power of the starter is running thru the wire, just the current that kicks the solenoid. Before i posted this I googled myself to see exactly what the point was and yes ur right its so that u can make a long wire run to the ignition using smaller wires. I have a volvo penta 2002. And let me tell you how good it felt today to CUT all the nonsense wires that went to the guages that didnt even work anyway. I then figured out how to jump the alternator, positive to positive, then run the negative straight to ground, in order to get my batteries to charge as i was having an issue. I am putting a toggle switch on the alternator as i assume it wouldnt be good to have it in the charge position all the time correct? since origionally the key wudda shut off this connection. This boat is a TON safer now. I despise complicated connections that corporations employ for ease and cheapness of installation, especially on boats
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Old 26-08-2012, 13:08   #8
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

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Old 26-08-2012, 13:08   #9
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Now I understand your question. I don't see a problem with what you want to do. However, I also don't see your concerns about leaving the current solenoid in place. They only cost $2-3, so if you believe it may fail, carry a spare.

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Old 26-08-2012, 14:29   #10
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
I am putting a toggle switch on the alternator as i assume it wouldnt be good to have it in the charge position all the time correct?
Now, I'm really confused.
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Old 26-08-2012, 15:11   #11
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Now, I'm really confused.
Me to, why do that?
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Old 26-08-2012, 19:26   #12
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
exactly what im saying, its not like all the power of the starter is running thru the wire, just the current that kicks the solenoid. Before i posted this I googled myself to see exactly what the point was and yes ur right its so that u can make a long wire run to the ignition using smaller wires. I have a volvo penta 2002. And let me tell you how good it felt today to CUT all the nonsense wires that went to the guages that didnt even work anyway. I then figured out how to jump the alternator, positive to positive, then run the negative straight to ground, in order to get my batteries to charge as i was having an issue. I am putting a toggle switch on the alternator as i assume it wouldnt be good to have it in the charge position all the time correct? since origionally the key wudda shut off this connection. This boat is a TON safer now. I despise complicated connections that corporations employ for ease and cheapness of installation, especially on boats
Ok, so...

- You cut all/most wires going to the control panel
- You wired the alternator output directly to the battery positive
- You figured out a way to wire a ground for the alternator drectly to a battery
- You wired a switch directly into the starter solenoid circuit
- You are looking for ways to "simplify" the electrics.

There are a ton of considerations - guages, alarms, warning lights etc. but here are a couple of tips.

- Use marine grade everything with correct wiring colors
- Get a book on marine electrics or DC electrics
- Good luck

a couple of on-topic tips

- Wiring an appropriately sized momentary switch with an appropriately fused circuit to activate the starter solenoid should work - I remember driving a couple of cars that had a foot press starter button and foot press headlight dimmers.

- In regards to the alternator. This is 99.9% sure to be an internally regulated alternator. The output, as you have figured out charges the battery. The field is a "sense" of the system voltage and also excites the field winding to "regulate" the voltage level and provide a current output. You don't need to switch the alternator.

In fact if you switch the "field" - The alternator will sense zero battery voltage and run the output up until the diodes fail.

If you switch the output I don't think anything bad happens but nothing good happens. The field will still sense whatever voltage is on the system and try to regulate an appropriate output unless the filed is also switched then you blow out the alternator again.

If you are using a single circuit master switch (please tell us you are using a master switch) - on most boats the output of the alternator is connected on the output side of the switch - i.e. the alternator supply is switched with the master.

The field is connected in an appropriate place to sense buss voltage or more appropriately battery voltage. A positive supply buss near the battery is a good recommendation.

(Oh - the final thing the alternator does is provide a signal for the tachometer so I presume your tach is either not working or you don't need it to work.

One thing you don't want to be doing as you rewire things on your boat is to just keep adding circuits to the battery post. This is s really bad idea for a lot of reasons.
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Old 26-08-2012, 21:20   #13
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albergsailor View Post
exactly what im saying, its not like all the power of the starter is running thru the wire, just the current that kicks the solenoid. ...Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...
The above is how I first read your post and responded. In short, I stopped reading after understanding you simply wanted to short around the switch solenoid and not the starter solenoid.

I just now read the whole post and think you need electrical help.

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Old 26-08-2012, 21:56   #14
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

You might want to consult with a marine electrician. There are reasons for the wires that you eliminated. You might be trying to reinvent the wheel without fully understanding the downside to what you have done. I tried but I don't fully understand what you have done and I have done quite a bit of electrical system work on boats.

There are also plenty of books that describe engine and boat electrical systems that might be of help.
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Old 26-08-2012, 22:26   #15
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Re: Has Anyone Done Away With Their Starter Relay?

On my boat the starter switch directly energizes the starter solenoid. There is no extra relay in the circuit. Just need to have start button and wire robust enough to handle the current draw of the solenoid.

So answer: YES
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