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Old 30-09-2013, 15:46   #1
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Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Me and the skipper(the wife) have a quandary that we'ld like some help/advice from the community please. We have been looking at blue water boats for the last five years, and have at last found two that we really like. One is a Tayana 37 and the other 40ft Hardin sea wolf. I've read all about the pitfalls of teak decks and the Leaky Teaky boat club stuff and so on. The sea wolf has plenty of that, the Tayana doesn't have them, but that's not the question.

The Tayana has had one owner from new and kept her in immaculate condition, the sea wolf needs what appears to be a little TLC. The Heart says we buy the Hardin Sea wolf, the head says the Tayana 37.

We're both reasonably fit, Jackie in her late 50s' me, mid 60's and we want to sail in the Caribbean and perhaps beyond over the next ten years, all being well.

We know we could cope with the Tayana, but The Sea wolf? is she just a little bit too big for us, weighing anchor etc etc. As a live aboard, which we intend to do the Sea wolf is a roomyer boat and a nice large cockpit- we expect to spend most of our time there.

We would very much appreciate your thoughts, especially from any Sea wolf owners, there's plenty of Tayana threads but not a lot on the Hardin.

Call us old romantics, call us fool hardy, but it looks like we're going to end up with one or the other so help us out please.

Thanks
Colin and Jackie (the shanty crew)

1984 Tayana sailboat for sale in Outside United States


BVI Yacht Sales Ltd. (St. Thomas,, Virgin Islands (US))
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Old 01-10-2013, 14:42   #2
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

I don't have any experience with either boat, but just based on what you have written the smart choice is to go with the Tayana. And basically it is just for the reasons you mentioned. Buying a boat is a personal emotional decision and that should factor in on what you buy. But it sounds like you plan on buying the boat to use extensively. If that is the case i would buy the boat in the best condition that will need the less maintenence. To top it off if you think that the Sea Wolf might be more boat than you can handle then I would definitely rule it out. Especially if you plan on sailing the boat into your 70s.
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Old 01-10-2013, 15:04   #3
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Whatever you do, do NOT ask Zeehag, she is way to partial to the Sea Wolf....
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Old 01-10-2013, 15:15   #4
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Tough choice. Both are salty boats with reputations. The teak decks and wooden spars on the Hardin are pretty big minuses in my book. Purchasing from the original owner, in the Tayana's case, may be an advantage too since you'll likely know more about the boat's history (maintenance, issues, faults, upgrades, etc.).

I'm also willing to bet (no personal experience with either) the Tayana sails a lot better than the Hardin, if you care about such things.
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Old 03-10-2013, 13:06   #5
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Well.... the Sea Wolf *does* come with a waffle maker.
Other than that, I'd pick the Tayana. Wood decks and mast are big maintenance and likely problem areas. Both are expensive to fix. The Tayana looks pretty good in the pics, but that can be deceptive. If you buy the Tayana, you'll need to remove that arch-trocity from the stern. I understand the reasoning, but it's still a crime against nature.
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Old 03-10-2013, 13:12   #6
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

We We enjoyed Yab-Yum, our Tayana 37 for years. She was a great blue water boat for two. She came with teak decks which we removed without too much trouble. As we got older, we moved to the dark side and bought a trawler.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:31   #7
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

I suppose I should have guessed the Tayana 37, for all the reasons you've all quoted. Since posting we have had contact from the Hardin owner. He's a yacht rigger and has rigged this ketch with Dynex dux by Colligo marine which has some conflicting reports on the interweb, so it's difficult to come to a conclusion on this.
We have been on board the Hardin and as far as we can see the Masts and rigging are in perfect condition as is the rest of the running rigging, blocks, winches, etc. all look as new, or very well cared for.
We love the Tayana, and went on board her as well, in the same day. She's listed at almost twice the price of the Sea wolf, and is well over our meager budget.
So against all your advice we've put in an offer on the Sea wolf. As for the Tayana we've had a hard time getting any response from the broker, took over a week just to make contact. He's now asking us to at least put an offer in on the T37 even a very low offer, so we're thinking of doing that, say the same price as the Hardin.
Both brokers seem to want to formalise these initial offers with signed paper work and the Tayana guy want a 10% deposit with the offer.
Having never bought a used sailboat before I find this procedure rather odd, it's not like this buying/selling property, at least in the UK.
Thing is we don't know if it's the done thing to offer on two boats at the same time,

........................it's all very confusing
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:38   #8
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Very partial to Tayana. my boat is built very solid, and it surprises me when i climb down into the depths, how well designed it is, and how heavily its built! have you visited the Tayana users group?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/tognews
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:12   #9
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Hi Shanty, I looked at both boats during our buying process. Love them both, although we ended up buying something different (Rafiki-37). The Hardin, being more volumous, is going to be a bit more comfortable as a live-a-board, although the Tayana would be fine as well (it's pretty much the same size as our Rafiki). Both have excellent reputations of being good sea boats. And both are beautiful, classic designed boats (which you've obviously decided is what you are looking for).

BTW, our boat has a teak deck. I love it! Sure, its got problems, but all old boats have problems. It's just another way to ensure I'm never bored .

Outside of price tag, upkeep quality, equipment lists, and perhaps the purchasing logistics, the bigger decision to make is probably around having a cutter vs a ketch. You don't say what experience you have with these various rigs. I like them both, but the ketch is now considered an archaic option by many.

With regard to buying process, it's normal to provide a 10% deposit on an accepted financial offer. From your message, it sounds like you're still negotiating on the Tayana's price. You should not need to give the broker a deposit before your price has been agreed to. Of course, the next steps would be a pre-purchase survey (by a surveyor selected by you), and final sea trials.

BTW, I wouldn't be too patient with a poor broker. If he/she doesn't want your business, then take go elsewhere. There are lots of Tayanas out there, and the Hardin would be a fine boat.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:23   #10
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

there are still some positives to having a ketch rig.

Why do I have a Mizzen?

rudder fall off? have fun on your sloop.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:58   #11
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

check out this tayana 37.
1979 Tayana Pilothouse Ketch sailboat for sale in Florida
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:22   #12
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Thanks for the link Scoobert, looks interesting nice light in the dog house but a lot of windage there, and why do people post bad/fuzzy photos if they really want to impress. And you've got to wonder why they painted the wood? But very good price.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:21   #13
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

i ran into a lot of this, bad photos in posts, the truth is when you realize something your selling is worth less then you think it is, you care less about the photos.

that ketch, according to bob perry, the designer, is actually the best tayana 37 out there. it sails better then the sloops.

if i were to want to buy that boat, i would open up with a $15,000 bid on it.
in fact if i had not come across my leaky teaky when i did, i would own a tayana 37.
the benefit of the one here, is the teak is mostly gone now. aside from checking for soft decks, most of the worry is gone.

The Tayana 37 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:34   #14
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by shantycrew View Post
And you've got to wonder why they painted the wood? But very good price.
If you had ever owned a boat that had any significant amount of brightwork you would not be asking this question. As gorgeous as it is, it requires a tremendous amount of maintenance if you're going to keep it varnished. 12 base coats, a few maintenance coats every year, and every half-dozen years you should take it all down to the bare wood and refinish. Obviously there is a wide spectrum of effort and aesthetics from "pathologically maintained" to "just keep the wood from rotting", but it's still a huge amount of work. Many people end up painting the wood because paint is a much more durable covering than varnish or even Cetol, if properly prepped and applied. It's all a matter of aesthetics vs. time and effort.

The wooden mast would really scare me away. It looks great now, but if you had any sense of what it takes to maintain a wooden mast (see above, and consider doing all this in a bosun's chair...on two masts).

Regarding the teak decks, they are extremely hot in hot weather...almost impossible to walk on in bare feet, and they make the cabin much hotter because they absorb a tremendous amount of thermal energy compared to white fiberglass. As much as I adore the looks and feel of them underfoot, having grown up on a boat with them, I would not consider them for any boat that was going to spend extended periods south of the Carolinas. And then you have the hit to resale value, which only gets worse as the boat ages. In general, the cost of replacing them runs $1,000 per foot of deck length, and even taking them off and redoing with fiberglass is going to cost you around 1/3 of that depending on what's underneath. That's going to come right off the offer price you get if the decks are not in decent shape.

The Tayana 37 is an iconic boat, and part of the price is it's reputation. It's well deserved, and I'm pretty sure that the Tayana will hold it's value better over the medium and long term.

It's dangerous to fall in love with a boat for reasons of style unless you have deep pockets. Err to the side of practicality; an immaculate single-owner boat means much fewer headaches and nasty surprises down the road. As a live aboard, that should be your primary criteria, provided the boat actually meets your other objective needs.

And yeah, the 10% is just earnest money, held in escrow (assuming the broker is a YBAA broker). It just establishes you as a credible and qualified buyer so that the broker (and seller) don't waste their time with some tirekicker. You can walk away for any reason, defensible or not, and get your money back.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:41   #15
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Re: Hardin Sea wolf or Tayana 37

Maintenance excluded sail both. My experience is that the Tayana is a much better sailer, particularly in lighter air and going to weather! Looks are deceiving.
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