Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

For an example of this, read about Skip Allan's experience in the gale zone offshore of San Francisco. I've sailed with Skip and he is one of the very best sailors I know. But he found himself in conditions where, as a solo sailor, he had to abandon his small boat. I know another bigger / heavier boat (Pacific Seacraft 34) that was doublehanded in that same place and time, and while they had a very rough passage they made it through.

Did the couple on the PSC34 see the exact same conditions as Skip? I don't know. I was there on my boat the previous week, but that was before the gale had fully developed. In any case, there are lessons to be learned.

Skip's story: Abandoning ship: gut-wrenching, perilous, sometimes right

Hair-raising story. 27' race boat in 35' waves. Not fun.

Skip Allen found himself in just those conditions less than 400 miles from his home port of Santa Cruz, sailing in 35 knots of wind with a 39-square-foot storm staysail, towing a 30-foot diameter metal-hooped drogue, and, according to his log, "the cockpit filling every five minutes."

I'm assuming that's a typo and it was a 30" drogue!

Six or seven hours later, in a display of sterling seamanship, the Toronto, in waves so extreme her massive bow bulb rose 20 feet out of the sea, maneuvered alongside of Wildflower, creating a lee that allowed Skip to jump from the deck of his boat to a jacob's ladder hanging down the ship's hull. Safe on board, Skip watched Wildflower "bang and scrape her way down the aft quarter of the ship and disappear under the stern. I watched, but could barely see through my tears."

On some level I think that took more balls than staying on the boat. I think I would have been terrified to the point of paralysis.

[SSgtPitt]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Most boats over 25 or 30 years old are near worthless price wise but are still serviceable. Just about all boats are capable of crossing oceans so don't fret too much about that.

Time to join the fray, you guys are having WAY too much fun.
A well cared for and well maintained older boat, with a full keel, can still hold it’s value and turn heads.
And it’s my “personal opinion” this type or style of boat will save you from your own mistakes and or ignorance......that’s why I bought it. We don’t have enough experience yet to deal with keels falling off, ripped off rudders etc. I want to be able to run into or over something and not sink the boat. So slow and heavy works for me until I get more experience.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

. Most boats over 25 or 30 years old are near worthless price wise but are still serviceable. Just about all boats are capable of crossing oceans so don't fret too much about that.

really I guess you don't look to carefully then. My Spencer is worth well over 50k in today's market. ( only about 30k when built) built in 1966 frp and over 5o years old
My columbia 1963 so also well over 50 and worth more than when new ( yes adjusted for inflation) there are many examples that say you don't know squat about older boats.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

Time to join the fray, you guys are having WAY too much fun.
A well cared for and well maintained older boat, with a full keel, can still hold it’s value and turn heads.

You beat me to it because I also disagree with Mr Macdonalds statement about older boats. They are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and in good condition that will be quite a bit, could even be 50% of the original purchase price.

Pretty boat btw.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by newhaul

really I guess you don't look to carefully then. My Spencer is worth well over 50k in today's market. ( only about 30k when built) built in 1966 frp and over 5o years old
My columbia 1963 so also well over 50 and worth more than when new ( yes adjusted for inflation) there are many examples that say you don't know squat about older boats.

The marina just chainsawed a couple of old full keelers. Saved the lead to sell for scrap at fifty cents a pound. I guess that more than paid for the dumpster but if you add labor they lost money on it-----never mind getting shafted on the 20 year storage bill. Saw a Columbia 29 on craigs list a while back. It said "free to good home" and he would even through in one year free towing from boat US.
The marina down the street refurbished an old, small Island Packet in 2009. Awlgrip, rigging, sails, diesel rehabbed, new tanks, interior painted and varnished. He decided to use it himself last year since it didn't sell.
Now help me out here, tell me what that "adjusted for inflation" figure might be for yours.
I'm going to tell you a secret but don't tell anyone else. Old boats aren't worth the water they float on in today's market. West coast may be different but since YachtWorld has a 15 or 20 year supply of used boats listed, I doubt it. I was even told by one broker that 80% of the boats listed will never sell.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You beat me to it because I also disagree with Mr Macdonalds statement about older boats. They are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and in good condition that will be quite a bit, could even be 50% of the original purchase price.

Pretty boat btw.

I agree that the old classics look great when refurbished and you might even be able to 25 cents on the dollar for your efforts. 50% of original purchase price is probably less than lead value.

[rbk]

Not sure why you guys keep feeding this troll. His head is just going to keep getting bigger an bigger until it can’t fit into his highly prestigious,slightly larger than my bath tub of a boat. Then how will he ever complete his circumnavigation let alone leave the ferocious waters of the Chesapeake.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The marina just chainsawed a couple of old full keelers. Saved the lead to sell for scrap at fifty cents a pound. I guess that more than paid for the dumpster but if you add labor they lost money on it-----never mind getting shafted on the 20 year storage bill. Saw a Columbia 29 on craigs list a while back. It said "free to good home" and he would even through in one year free towing from boat US.
The marina down the street refurbished an old, small Island Packet in 2009. Awlgrip, rigging, sails, diesel rehabbed, new tanks, interior painted and varnished. He decided to use it himself last year since it didn't sell.
Now help me out here, tell me what that "adjusted for inflation" figure might be for yours.
I'm going to tell you a secret but don't tell anyone else. Old boats aren't worth the water they float on in today's market. West coast may be different but since YachtWorld has a 15 or 20 year supply of used boats listed, I doubt it. I was even told by one broker that 80% of the boats listed will never sell.

a matter of marketing just like about 20 years ago when the truck manufacturers decided to tell everyone that you need a diesel engine to pull any kind of a trailer. Truth is gas engines of same or similar displacement will out pull a diesel up a hill from a dead stop. Fin keel boats are cheaper to build so the same thing happens as was done with trucks. If you want to sail you need a fin keel not a full keel. Truth my s 42 will out preform 90% of the similar sized fin keel mono hulls out there in the big blue.

So it all comes down to marketing.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rbk

Not sure why you guys keep feeding this troll. His head is just going to keep getting bigger an bigger until it can’t fit into his highly prestigious,slightly larger than my bath tub of a boat. Then how will he ever complete his circumnavigation let alone leave the ferocious waters of the Chesapeake.

It pretty much happens every time Kmac gets involved.

Folks just react..

Could be that's it as entertaining for them as it is for him.

Sailing is a slow and at times a boring sport unless you are racing beach cats etc which is why some of these threads last so long I'm thinking

Mountain climbing was also mentioned. Now that is a very intense sport. Speaking of life or death. One moment not in total concentration of what you are doing can spell your doom

As far as the Chesapeake Bay, come hang out near the bridge that divides the Chesapeake from the Atlantic Ocean and you will meet ferocious.... especially during a Nor'easter.

Btw, Kmac is 100 miles north of this point of the bay......in totally protected waters

Strong tide:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1513303095043


Shipping Channel:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1513302824082

Other photos:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1513303378144


https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1513303029613

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by rbk

Not sure why you guys keep feeding this troll. His head is just going to keep getting bigger an bigger until it can’t fit into his highly prestigious,slightly larger than my bath tub of a boat. Then how will he ever complete his circumnavigation let alone leave the ferocious waters of the Chesapeake.

How long does it take you to varnish every year or did you finally give up on it and let it go like most sensible people? They don't call it a lobor of love for nothing.
Finish my circumnavigation that I never started? Really? You must have seen the pictures of a Tayana with palm trees in the background. Hopefully reality will sink in sooner than later.

[rbk]

Sailing is a slow and at times a boring sport unless you are racing beach cats etc which is why some of these threads last so long I'm thinking

Or sailing in 35+knot winds in the North Pacific. Having had fin keel boats I much prefer the comfort of a full keel when real wind shows up.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It pretty much happens every time Kmac gets involved.

Folks just react..

Could be that's it as entertaining for them as it is for him.

Sailing is a slow and at times a boring sport unless you are racing beach cats etc which is why some of these threads last so long I'm thinking

Mountain climbing was also mentioned. Now that is a very intense sport. Speaking of life or death. One moment not in total concentration of what you are doing can spell your doom

As far as the Chesapeake Bay, come hang out near the bridge that divides the Chesapeake from the Atlantic Ocean and you will meet ferocious.... especially during a Nor'easter.

Btw, Kmac is 100 miles north of this point of the bay......in totally protected waters

https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1513302824082

I'll stop by in the spring on my way south in the early spring. We can test the speed of your longer water line length against my bathtub.

I don't know why these guys get so upset with my opinions. Then they take on the mob mentality and lose all sense of reality. Whatever floats their boat I suppose.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'll stop by in the spring on my way south in the early spring. We can test the speed of your longer water line length against my bathtub.

I don't know why these guys get so upset with my opinions. Then they take on the mob mentality and lose all sense of reality. Whatever floats their boat I suppose.

what make of car will you be driving so I can stay off the sidewalks.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'll stop by in the spring on my way south in the early spring. We can test the speed of your longer water line length against my bathtub.

I don't know why these guys get so upset with my opinions. Then they take on the mob mentality and lose all sense of reality. Whatever floats their boat I suppose.

I'm not upset. it's very entertaining.

I raced beach cats for many years and have had my fill of that......sailing at 20-25 knots plus to win THE CUP!.

Bring your bathtub on down here when the wind and waves are up and you will wish you had an old, heavy full keel boat like my Bristol instead of your little Capri 22

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by newhaul

what make of car will you be driving so I can stay off the sidewalks.

Don't worry, I wont run you down, at least until I get a sail in the Spencer.