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Old 23-02-2007, 21:52   #31
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Jack, Many thanks she always likes a compliment.

Islandplanet, we went from no battens to full battens with no modification to the mast or mizzen, have never had any issues and the sails actually seem easier to raise then they did without the batten. Probably as a result of the batten cars. As for additional weight. I have had all of the battens from both sails in one hand and don't find the weight significant. Not sure why I would need to add an additional track just for full battens. If the sails are constructed properly chafe is not and issue either compared to the benefits of better shape and the ability to point much closer. Of course someone selling a track system might find it necessary but for our part and the feedback from many other cruisers that have added full battens everyone seems very happy as is.
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Old 24-02-2007, 16:20   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Baier
Jack, Many thanks she always likes a compliment.

Islandplanet, we went from no battens to full battens with no modification to the mast or mizzen, have never had any issues and the sails actually seem easier to raise then they did without the batten. Probably as a result of the batten cars. As for additional weight. I have had all of the battens from both sails in one hand and don't find the weight significant. Not sure why I would need to add an additional track just for full battens. If the sails are constructed properly chafe is not and issue either compared to the benefits of better shape and the ability to point much closer. Of course someone selling a track system might find it necessary but for our part and the feedback from many other cruisers that have added full battens everyone seems very happy as is.
Chuck,

I never said everyone needed a track system. Depends on the boat, type of track on the mast, size of sail, # of battens, and the customer. I think your analysis runs counter to much of the thinking in the industry. Large full batten sails will always weigh more and put compression loads on the batten end receptacles. Unavoidable fact of life that has nothing to do with who builds the sail. You'll hear far more complaints about raising and reefing full batten sails than you will about the investment made in Strong Track. Adding a track system at the time of purchasing a new main is far more economical than retrofitting after the fact. How long have you had your full batten main? Sounds like you have a ketch which will have a smaller main than a sloop of similar size.

YMMV
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Old 24-02-2007, 19:45   #33
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My analysis may be contrary to the "industry" but not the experience of us folk out there in the real world with no financial interest in adding expensive new hardware. In our 15 years of cruising around a large portion of the watery part of the planet I don't recall anyone that added full batten sails and then came back with issues that the sails were harder to raise or anything else for that matter. These were ketches, cutters, sloops, tall rigs, short rigs, new rigs, wood spars, carbon fiber spars and aluminum spars. Our full battens have been on now for 6 years without any of the problems you suggest. They have been through gales, storms and some just great but boisterous conditions. No problems. You did mention that you sell the track systems didn't you? Sorry but in our experience we haven't heard complaints about raising or reefing from any other cruisers we have encountered with full battens. Perhaps a seriously worn spar would indeed benefit but to say most will need new track just sounds like another sales pitch.
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Old 25-02-2007, 19:21   #34
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Chuck,

Talk to us when you get a boat with a large main. You don't have one on your boat because I can see your ketch in the pictures. We have clients with larger boats with higher aspect ratio rigs and much larger mains. For a boat your size we wouldn't recommend the Strong Track. How much batten tension do you have?

While you may dismiss it as sales pitch you're totally out of touch with the numbers of people who do complain about the effort required to raise their mains. Ask any Freedom owner about it. That's a semi-constant topic on the Freedom forum. And while we sell Strong Track it's not much of a money maker for us. We give people a pretty good discount as part of a package deal with their main because we know they'll never complain about the difference in force required compared to their old main. By the time we get the hardware installed on the sail and all is said and done we're probably making a 100 bucks extra if that on the whole deal. If you knew any of my customers they'd tell you we often steer them away from spending more money than they have to. We've found ways of getting by with fewer sails than a customer initially wanted. Our focus is on maximizing value not selling people crap they don't need.

If you think Strong Track is so unnecessary how do you explain all the people who call Tides Marine and order it? There's a lot of end users who buy direct from Tides Marine. A friend of mine with an Islander 36 recently purchased a Strong Track system because he and his wife wanted to reduce their workload. Nobody "sold" them on it. Their heavy full batten main was just getting to be a bother. They could have replaced all their batten end receptacles with pricy hardware but they still would have spent a great deal of money and not done a thing about the crux of the problem.
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Old 25-02-2007, 20:34   #35
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This post was about the merits of specific boats, Formosa, CT, or Mariner, and suddenly became the merits of a system you sell. If you have anything to add regarding the merits of the boats the original poster ask about we would all love to hear your input.
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Old 25-02-2007, 21:07   #36
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Chuck, please don't rough me up too much for again taking the posts away from the original thread topic but i have the best intentions (and in many ways would be ultimately related)...i have been in touch with the Webmaster at the Formosa51/Hardin50 owners site because of my interest in setting up a second site dedicated to the 41' ketch's (Formosa, CT, Island Trader, Transworld, etc., etc.)

I am testing the waters, would that be valuable to anyone here?

max
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Old 26-02-2007, 03:47   #37
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Iíve posted a new thread, where we can discuss the merits of Sail Car Systems, and Full Battened Mainsíls at:
Sail Car/Track Systems
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Old 26-02-2007, 10:09   #38
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max, I am sure that any owners of those particular boats or even boats of similar design would be happy to find another source (other than cruisersforum) to discuss the attributes, problems and solutions to issues specific to their boats. There is and owners web site currently for the Mariners.

Also, Thanks once again Gord. Notice I didn't say God this time.
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Old 26-02-2007, 11:04   #39
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Darn - I've been demoted!
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Old 15-12-2014, 21:02   #40
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Re: Formosa vs. CT vs. Mariner

Geeze, I feel bad that my Mariner 32 seems shoddy in build.
I mean, I've had other vessels built in the USA, as I believe the 79 year was, long beach I believe.
Don't get me wrong, the vessel has much to offer in Design, but I want to give a serious talkin to the workers that constructed mine.
And the deck seam sucks. Leaks, so if you look at one of those boats please inspect it carefully.
I'm in the process of repair and replacing the bulkheads on one side of mine that rotted out from leaks at the deck seam.
And no compression post to the keel, or support, gosh I mean it's pretty but.
So, not complaining... Much.
I got this boat for very little and do my own stunts, so I'll get through this and know what I have.
These are really sturdy boats just pamper it.
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Old 16-12-2014, 07:44   #41
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Re: Formosa vs. CT vs. Mariner

mariner vs ct vs f0rmosa--mariner is a different boat than ct and formosa. similar in design, different in layout inside. is also a foot shorter than ct and formosa and sea wolf. ct, formosa, and sea wolf are identical in interior layout and performance and design.
exactly.
mariner is different. mariner 40 has worm gear steering not found in the other three marques,and some other differences like a vee berth and a mast in the mddle of that berth. the other three have a pulman berth abaft the forepeak.mariner has a deck stepped mizzen, the others have a mizen stepped to a beam beneath the deck
as for exterior and sailing-- the folks i know with mariner like theirs.
i like my formosa. they are heavy fullkeel ketches with good sailing attitudes in trade winds, for which all of them were designed to sail. if you like heavy boats, these are all good. yes they all need work, but so does a brand new fresh out of the mold shiny production boat.
none of the leaky teakies is a production boat--each one is individually built, not on a production line.
yes there are isssues, but good maintenance makes em awesomer than the catahuntebenelinas coming out of molds all identical and without built-in character.
the ct, formosa and sea wolf are very easily repaired while under way--easy to access the packing gland while sailing..entire drive system is easily accessed by lifting some hatches.
most perfect for cruising, as sh** hapens while underway as opposed to while sitting in a slip somewhere.
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