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Old 11-02-2014, 23:56   #31
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Re: Finding a new lover

So she has issues with a mast in the middle of the boat, how to get the best tan, and where to go when she needs her space...? Sounds like you two need to live on the Alden for a while and see how things go. I'm of the opinion as the other posters -- you're not really seeking advice; just validation.
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Old 12-02-2014, 00:14   #32
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Re: Finding a new lover

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
So she has issues with a mast in the middle of the boat, how to get the best tan, and where to go when she needs her space...? Sounds like you two need to live on the Alden for a while and see how things go. I'm of the opinion as the other posters -- you're not really seeking advice; just validation.
I'm seeking both validation and advice.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:01   #33
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Re: Finding a new lover

Don't listen to anyone's conclusions about your relationship, because no one here can know what it's really like. Only you can know whether she's a keeper or not, whether she's reasonably expressing reasonable suggestions or whether she is pushing and manipulating you. Only you know how far she has gone already buying into your dreams and making them into common dreams and thus what is reasonable for you to do to meet her halfway, or how far she hasn't gone.

If she's listening to you and your ideas about boats and has moved on from cats and mobos, that might be a good sign. It's been said in the other thread that it's a very common and probably normal desire among women to want to move into a house which is not the house where her new man lived another life before her, and maybe with other women, but rather into a house which the couple chose together. If that's part of what's going on here, there's probably nothing wrong with that.

The Alden 44 is an absolutely gorgeous boat -- one of the prettiest things afloat, I think. I had a boat from the same yard. But I think this would be a fairly -- um, challenging boat as a comfortable liveaboard for a couple. There's no real master cabin so there's really just one living space below. Living aboard as a couple is really a different challenge to sailing solo -- a boat which is good for one might really not be suitable for the other.

If I were you, I would look at center cockpit boats with aft master cabins -- something like a Hylas 47, maybe? Also sold as a Stevens 47, this is a beautiful Sparkman & Stevens design with a very spacious, comfortable interior, with a nice aft master cabin. With a center cockpit boat, you also get an after deck which is an ideal place for sunbathing And not just sunbathing -- the after deck gives you real outdoor space; means you're not confined to the cockpit which makes a huge difference.

This is a very heavy (16 tons), sturdy boat with a long fin keel, so is not going to be all that fast. But most of them were cutter rigged and so this will be a great package for long-distance cruising -- safe and comfortable in any kind of weather.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:20   #34
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Re: Finding a new lover

For me the big clue is........The dog that didn't bark.

I understand what op is putting into the pot financially, just no mention of what she is. If all it is are what she sits on, then that much like boats - value depreciates with age.......and not worth enough to base long term financial health around.

If not a keeper then I would adopt the he who pays the piper approach - and let the chips fall where they may. Not to say that could not include a more female freindly boat - but that as much about an upgrade in the future as for the current model......of crew.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:39   #35
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Re: Finding a new lover

Personally, I'd have asked all who input into this thread to give some sort of 'relationship qualifications' before listening to a word they have to say.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:00   #36
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Re: Finding a new lover

Lol - other people's lives always easy to sort out!
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:05   #37
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Re: Finding a new lover

So it sounds to me that she just wants a modern boat! Who would have thought that those crazy boat builders would understand what people who aren't boat snobs like in a boat.
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:31   #38
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Re: Finding a new lover

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I recently had a talk with the lady friend and made some great progress. Her big pet pevees about my boat - some of which I share with her - are the mast in the middle of the salon, size of cockpit, ample deck space for laying out, ample living space where we can separate with a book when needed on opposite ends of the boat.

All valid concerns in my own mind or I can at least agree that the Alden 44 does not have good space to lay out for a tan. It's has been a design complaint of mine for years.

She is okay with the size of boat I have now.

Sounds like starting the discussion was key to progress.

And it also sounds like she's able to articulate her preferences for "features" that work, those that don't...

I'd bet shopping together will lead you both toward a decent solution.

FWIW, I wouldn't want a mast in the middle of my saloon either, no matter what the boat's brand name or how well it sails.

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Old 12-02-2014, 06:05   #39
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So it sounds to me that she just wants a modern boat! Who would have thought that those crazy boat builders would understand what people who aren't boat snobs like in a boat.

Hahahahahah! Good one Don. I had a hunch where this thread was going.

I know my first concern in boat shopping is insuring there's a good spot to sunbathe. I appreciate a bevy of bitty bikined babes on the bow as much as anyone but I wouldn't spend serious time with a gal who thinks that's important. Guess yer mileage varies.

And that mast in the saloon thing? Fuggitabout it! How dreadfully inconvenient. And if 44' feet of separation isn't enough for yer lady, 144' won't be enough either, imo.

Great thread. I'm chuckling out loud, and am reminded of my first ex who loved my TR3 roadster when we were dating but quickly grew to hate it after we were married. I'd like to say I'm still driving the TR3 but no, I bought a modern car. A great regret.

We all have our burdens in life but I'll trade my burdens for yours and the Alden, satdiver.

I have to wonder if maybe ya have a little too much residual mixed gas in yer system Cap.

Apologies in advance. No real harm intended.

At least yer not waxing yer chest! I hope.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:02   #40
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Re: Finding a new lover

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
So she has issues with a mast in the middle of the boat, how to get the best tan, and where to go when she needs her space...?

If you added that she hates chasing her beer across the table, I'd say you're exactly right smack dab in the middle of being a good prospect for a catamaran.

I, too, think you shouldn't make any big financial changes until this relationship has had time to prove itself. I know a little about this, being on my third marriage.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:14   #41
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Re: Finding a new lover

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She has never lived on a boat.
This bit of information is the key to the entire issue and says it all. How could she possible know "what is what" without experience. And, now you are considering letting her do a restart. This is analogous to giving guns to monkeys.

Move her aboard and rethink the problem in a year.

Think of the year as due diligence or discovery. You may find that you don't like her as much as you think you do.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:33   #42
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So she has issues with a mast in the middle of the boat,

Take her out in some weather... she may just come to appreciate something to grab as she flies across the salon in a rolling seaway.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:36   #43
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Re: Finding a new lover

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Is this for real??
It smells like a "social experiment".




Dude, you are standing into danger. "Better for her tan" should really not be a consideration for your boat's seaworthiness factor. You are describing a situation where you do all the work on a bigger boat that's put you in deeper debt, while she lies on the pec deck dreaming of various forms of footitis.

Forty-four foot Alden is just about perfect. If a keel-stepped mast bugs her, wait until your first F9 in the Gulf Stream. You'll never hear the end of it.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:40   #44
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Re: Finding a new lover

So you are going to lose $50K on your dream boat and then how much on the next boat that probably will not meet her expectations? IMO with the information you have provided the reasons she gave are more likely excuses for not wanting to go cruising than problems with your lovely boat. There is no evidence of good conflict resolution skills in this relationship. She wants a $500K boat? Yikes!!!

Having done lots of painful things in my life to be with high maintenance size zero model soul mate types, I now (after lots of therapy ha) realize that I was like a parrot attracted to shiny objects and run the other way. There are lots of red flags you are ignoring or rationalizing about but "the heart believes what it wants to believe."

When she leaves you (maybe with 18 years of child support to pay or some other debacle?) after you have bought another expensive boat which you will probably sell for a huge loss will it have been worth it? If the answer is yes give it a shot.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:42   #45
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Re: Finding a new lover

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I'm seeking both validation and advice.
Validation that this is a potential nightmare for both of you?

Advice to sail in the opposite direction?

Go talk to a divorced/single guy at the bar with a nice boat. Ask him how "pleasing the lubber" went. The most wonderful woman in the world will not be turned into a sailor if she hasn't come to it naturally and of her own accord.

Living in a boat is marginally better than living in an RV in a world of unimproved roads. That's the reality, and it can only be polished so much. The reward is, of course, the freedom, beauty and simplicity of sailing. Finding a life partner who grasps that is, in my mind, a lot easier than trying to spend your way into a boat big enough to disguise the fact that you are in the ocean. Which is an utterly pointless pursuit, I think.
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