Dumb or screwed or both??

[Fore and Aft]

For sure Tillsbury, I do not unscrew any panels during a survey. The owner either does that or someone of his choosing. It’s way to easy to get blamed for some damage that might have occurred. Plus how many hours would I waste removing panels and putting them back in place.
I feel for you Kenomac but you do not know that guys personal circumstances. I did one survey on an expensive yacht and the buyer told me he was not going to buy the boat before I started the survey. He just needed to tick all the boxes so he got his deposit back. That poor guy had been blind sided with divorce papers that week and was now out of the market.
Cheers

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

For sure Tillsbury, I do not unscrew any panels during a survey. The owner either does that or someone of his choosing. It’s way to easy to get blamed for some damage that might have occurred. Plus how many hours would I waste removing panels and putting them back in place.
I feel for you Kenomac but you do not know that guys personal circumstances. I did one survey on an expensive yacht and the buyer told me he was not going to buy the boat before I started the survey. He just needed to tick all the boxes so he got his deposit back. That poor guy had been blind sided with divorce papers that week and was now out of the market.
Cheers

How do you explain his leaving the hatches unlocked during the winter? And the large rear hatch area I now need to repair because he pulled down the headliner to check for nonexistent leaks. The guy was a complete waste of time because he was a dreamer... dreaming way beyond his means to pay for his dreams.

He had no business looking at boats which cost $200k above his budget. I don’t think a pending divorce was the cause of his inconsiderate stupidity.

[Moontide]

Several good suggestions here. Presuming the purchase is subject to you "accepting" the survey (with no limitations on what constitutes "accepting" it), you could give a conditional / provisional acceptance subject to you being able to do your personal inspection. Maybe put a time limit on it so that the seller knows your not stalling.



Also like the comments about having lockers empty and full access to everywhere. Will have to remember to put that in the original offer if I buy another boat down the road.
Bill

[Tillsbury]

Only the owner is likely to know which panels are worth removing. On this boat you couldn’t see any keel bolts nor most of the bilge without unscrewing some of the flooring sections, and there are a number of small screwed-on panels that allow access to steering gear, mast wiring etc. a survey without removing these would have been much less worthwhile.

[Moontide]

Not opening any screwed down areas could be a giant problem IMHO. Some insurance companies require, and most world cruisers as a matter of good seamanship screw down all floorboards, battery box tops, etc. to prevent (reduce) problems if there is a rollover. If none are opened then there would be no inspection of any bilge.


Kind of reinforces need to have the owner or authorized rep on board for the survey.



Bill

[Fore and Aft]

Moontide its not that often I come across screwed down floor boards. Most are either held down with latches or loose. I remember one American yacht that had sailed to Australia from California and the cockpit floor was just one giant loose fiberglass hatch. That hatch must have leaked something shocking and would have fallen out if they had capsized.
Cheers

[Moontide]

Guess my experience is with hard core (maybe read old school) and with racing boat standards. Pretty sure offshore racing rules require "secured" floorboards, which are usually screwed down.


Certainly not a world standard.

[boatpoker]

I am a surveyor, not a boat gear mover. I have actually walked away from surveys where I could barely get inside the boat. I have been expected to remove dinghies and outboard motors from lazarettes. I have expected to remove three couches, two coffee tables and carpeting to get into an engine room. If I dammage sole varnish by removing screws to gain access to a bilge I will be taken to small claims court forthe cost of re-varnishing.

I was actually sued for $600 for cutting a 6" hole in shrink wrap to get at the HIN number. The owner was PO'd that the deal fell through and sued for new shrink that would come off a week later. The judge looked at me and said " Wallace the man is an idiot but my hands are tied, you did cut his wrap".

It is critical that all areas of the boat be accessible to the surveyor. Look at a few shots at the bottom of this article to see what I'm up against.
Preparing for a Marine Survey

Also take a look at this one to see some of the things I never would have found without complete access to bilges.
Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

[Moontide]

Boatpoker - great info and links. I think I'm a fairly experienced boat owner but learned a lot from your links. Thanks.


Bill

[broomhandle]

Just be aware that everyone involved in the purchase from surveyors to your broker to previous owners will walk away and (usually politely) turn their backs the moment you accept the contract. "Must have missed it", "that's boating", "must have happened after the purchase" are favorite responses. And watch the surveyors in action. I just had a rigging survey done by someone who didn't go up the mast. Had a broken swivel at the top of the furling main. "Must have missed it".

[Trimaran Ken]

Everyone should learn that if you have a written contract, anything that is said and is not in the contract is pure BS. Don't take the standard line of "this is the standard contract that everyone signs". If you care about anything that is not in the contact, have them write it in. If they refuse, walk away. That being said, as a seller, I don't want to have people poking through my boat unless they are 99% committed to buying it. In your case, I would accept the provision of personal inspection after the survey, only if I had a contract in writing that allowed me an exit if I found something significant that the surveyor didn't find, or a second opinion from a surveyor.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by JK3Yachts

I don't want to make any assumptions, but if you are concerned about few projects on a brokerage boat, then your purchasing budget may need some adjusting - keeping within realistic maintenance budget/schedule will also keep transaction anxiety and surprise breakdowns at bay.

Good luck with the new boat. Hope it is smooth sailing.

I'm always concerned with a few projects on a brokerage boat. Who wouldn't be?

[jimisbell]

Originally Posted by ttex

My surveyor was not very good. I found much more than he ever did.

I have no training as a surveyor, only 40 years of owning boats, and I find more than any surveyor I ever hired. I have quit hiring a surveyor. Why?

[jimisbell]

Originally Posted by Trimaran Ken

Everyone should learn that if you have a written contract, anything that is said and is not in the contract is pure BS. Don't take the standard line of "this is the standard contract that everyone signs". If you care about anything that is not in the contact, have them write it in. If they refuse, walk away. That being said, as a seller, I don't want to have people poking through my boat unless they are 99% committed to buying it. In your case, I would accept the provision of personal inspection after the survey, only if I had a contract in writing that allowed me an exit if I found something significant that the surveyor didn't find, or a second opinion from a surveyor.

As long as there is an escape clause that requires only your opinion, you are safe.


I have never walked away. Maybe I should have, but usually just the knowledge that a flaw is there is all I want. I can fix anything if the price is right.....

[skenn_ie]

If the surveyor doesn't clear out and inspect behind "stuff", they will state that in their survey, with the proviso that they DIDN'T inspect those areas. An insurance company may decline insurance because of that.