Dumb or screwed or both??

[Fore and Aft]

I don’t care who you bring. I have surveyed plenty of boats with the whole family being present. It’s good to get the family involved early I think.
It’s predominantly a male environment so it’s nice to talk to the occasional female.
Cheers

[leftbrainstuff]

So called professional surveyors are a little like unicorns. Everybody knows what they look like but few have seen one.

Surveyors usually wont survey rigging, powertrain or dig into hard to reach areas.

During our survey I found dozens of issues the surveyor didnt. When we received our survey report it was clearly a cut and paste job. Lots of mistakes.

Most surveyors do not have engineering, technical or vocational backgrounds. So I certainly wouldnt consider a professional surveyor anything other than an industry marketing thing.

In fact our broker was a better surveyor.

The only leverage you have to get what you need to make a decision is leverage over payment. Pay a deposit that motivates the seller and that you can afford to lose if things go sour.

Then demand that your perfectly reasonable expectations are met. Its up to the seller and selling broker to jump through hoops as needed. Laziness is not a valid excuse IMHO.

Originally Posted by JK3Yachts

You're neither.

Sales agent here....sounds like you already know that a personal inspection is not a standard contingency for a boat sale, outside of a typical boat showing. You obviously liked what you saw previously if you were under contract. It seems like you may be experiencing a little transaction anxiety, which is pretty normal for a big purchase.

Honestly ask yourself...what do you think you will find that a licensed, experienced, surveyor, with the right tools will miss?

In reality, there is no obligation for the seller to allow you back on board except for the sea trial and survey. Further, there is no protection for the current owner for any mess or damage that may result from a personal inspection, especially as you seem to want to do so without the owner on board. Personally, I would also INSIST upon being present on my boat, that I am liable for, if anyone planned to perform an inspection of any kind, beyond a standard sales showing.

In short, your request to perform your own survey/inspection is a little odd, and their refusal to accommodate you is not surprising. Especially as you said, it is not included in your contract.

The good news is, it doesn't sound like you are dumb or screwed. You just need a good referral for a great surveyor in your area, which I'm sure the forum, or your reputable broker can provide for you.

Hire a reputable surveyor and trust the process, hopefully this will alleviate your concerns. It doesn't sound like you are locked into the the purchase yet, you can decline the purchase if you don't like the way the boat runs during sea trial and if anything shows up at survey. I usually request 5 days to review the surveyor report thoroughly in a purchase agreement.

Always keep in mind that boats are boats - they are in an environment that supports constant deterioration, and many things will ultimately require maintenance and replacing. Few boats are perfect and those that seem to be, are not for long.

I don't want to make any assumptions, but if you are concerned about few projects on a brokerage boat, then your purchasing budget may need some adjusting - keeping within realistic maintenance budget/schedule will also keep transaction anxiety and surprise breakdowns at bay.

Good luck with the new boat. Hope it is smooth sailing.

[skenn_ie]

My dad was a MS. I occasionally took notes for him as he crawled around in bilges, even into his 70s.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by JK3Yachts

You're neither.

Sales agent here....sounds like you already know that a personal inspection is not a standard contingency for a boat sale, outside of a typical boat showing. You obviously liked what you saw previously if you were under contract. It seems like you may be experiencing a little transaction anxiety, which is pretty normal for a big purchase.

Honestly ask yourself...what do you think you will find that a licensed, experienced, surveyor, with the right tools will miss?

In reality, there is no obligation for the seller to allow you back on board except for the sea trial and survey. Further, there is no protection for the current owner for any mess or damage that may result from a personal inspection, especially as you seem to want to do so without the owner on board. Personally, I would also INSIST upon being present on my boat, that I am liable for, if anyone planned to perform an inspection of any kind, beyond a standard sales showing.

In short, your request to perform your own survey/inspection is a little odd, and their refusal to accommodate you is not surprising. Especially as you said, it is not included in your contract.

The good news is, it doesn't sound like you are dumb or screwed. You just need a good referral for a great surveyor in your area, which I'm sure the forum, or your reputable broker can provide for you.

Hire a reputable surveyor and trust the process, hopefully this will alleviate your concerns. It doesn't sound like you are locked into the the purchase yet, you can decline the purchase if you don't like the way the boat runs during sea trial and if anything shows up at survey. I usually request 5 days to review the surveyor report thoroughly in a purchase agreement.

Always keep in mind that boats are boats - they are in an environment that supports constant deterioration, and many things will ultimately require maintenance and replacing. Few boats are perfect and those that seem to be, are not for long.

I don't want to make any assumptions, but if you are concerned about few projects on a brokerage boat, then your purchasing budget may need some adjusting - keeping within realistic maintenance budget/schedule will also keep transaction anxiety and surprise breakdowns at bay.

Good luck with the new boat. Hope it is smooth sailing.

You have just said loud and clear that when I make an offer to you or your company I should have an attorney draw it up before submitting it. Under any contract a buyer should be allowed to perform any inspections, data searches, etc he or she deems necessary under due diligence. As a broker do you run the reports to find any warranty or insurance claims. Do you run a title search so you know how many owners have owned the boat and where the boat was used? I doubt very much you do. If a buyer wants to board the boat to perform what he or she sees as due diligence then get out to the boat. You are the Seller's representative. If you are not allowed by the Seller to act on his behalf at any inspection required by the Buyer then have no right taking the listing.

In addition what you have done is expertly make a case for a buyer having his own broker. How do you like giving up 50% of the commission?

[Hardhead]

That's a dang shame about the deal falling through. There is a certain mentality the believes everyone is dishonest and a cheater at heart, so they justify themselves in their own behavior. Only dishonest people at their core have these thoughts. What kind of ignorant scum of a broker or owner lists original 30 some year old rigging as being new 3 years ago? Anyone that stupid probably deserves a pop in the mouth in a perfect world, although I'm not really a person of violent thoughts - it's just a thought I have in these sorts of BS con jobs. Hopefully, karma comes back around to the the arrogant, devious and conniving. Luckily, it seems to be a buyers market. Good luck-

[Hardhead]

Honestly, if you're reasonable confident it was the broker's allowance of the lie, I'd name the broker publicly, and let the facts speak for themselves. Nothing like a google search under a broker's name blackballing him for his own clear representations. Such an act would be a public service, and possibly ethically required.

[Keithward]

The broker and the owner both state that the information on the rigging is what they were told but the broker still is using a magazine article that describes the boat and list erroneous features as compared to the manufactures brochure

[Keithward]

Never even did the survey
Ordered rigging inspection mainly to get eval on masthead
And result was 30+ year old standing rigging.
Whole brain stuff.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Keithward

The broker and the owner both state that the information on the rigging is what they were told but the broker still is using a magazine article that describes the boat and list erroneous features as compared to the manufactures brochure

"you mean to tell me, you've owned this sailboat for X years, and you thought this rigging was only 3 years old?"


"you meant to tell me you've been a sailboat broker for X years, and you thought this rigging was only 3 years old?"


"well - I guess it's really a matter of intelligence, either you have it, or you don't - holy cow"