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Old 06-09-2008, 18:00   #1
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choosing the right boat?

Greetings

Looking to purchase a live on cruiser style boat between 45 and 55 feet any suggestions? We are attracted to the layout of the Vagabond Bluewater Cutter/Ketch also the Nordia 50 ketch however I haven't educated myself enough to know if it's a good or a bad boat. I'm a firm beleiver in quality, I'm sure you get what you pay for.

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Jeff & Grace
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Old 06-09-2008, 20:29   #2
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Quote:
however I haven't educated myself enough to know if it's a good or a bad boat. I'm a firm believer in quality
We do education here 24 x 7. With a 50 ft boat like this you'll need a lot. You'll buy it and be scared to death to go any place. You'll pay a lot to keep it some place and even more to keep it in good shape. You'll find out how quickly a boat that looks this good can cost so much to maintain and how many dark corners you can't see in the pictures. It's best to get your arms around the bigger picture before you get married to the other woman. You may know what appeals to you but it's secondary to what works for you.

It's time to tighten up the goals and get down to planning what you really want and can do. Then you can work toward making it happen. It takes preparation and a wad of money both in large quantities. It's a lot of work even with a really large wad of money. If you want to be sailors then you best get to it. Other than the money we have most of what you need. I suspect you knew about the money before you got here. Like most things you start at the beginning and build on that. People do get there and it's not something you are born with. You can do it if you can learn it.

Just as a getting started how much do you think it would cost not counting the purchase price to go to Spain and buy this boat and bring it home insured all the way?
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Old 06-09-2008, 21:07   #3
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I suggest you look at the Schucker 50

Scott
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Old 06-09-2008, 21:28   #4
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Ditto on the 45-55 being insanely large. I'm at 36 hull / 43 with all the trimmings, and sometimes it feels like I have an aircraft carrier.

If I had to do it again I'd get a 28 that I controlled every inch of the interior layout.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 06-09-2008, 21:58   #5
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Funny, I don't see where Heffe asked what size boat he should buy. Yet you guys are gonna start the 'you should buy a smaller boat' crap. You don't even know what experience Heffe has or if he is 'getting started'. Yet you automatically treat him like he has no idea what he's talking about.
Why does he need to 'tighten up his goals'? He knows exactly what he wants. How could you know what works for him? Insanely large? He doesn't think so. Maybe if you have a 'little' boat it is. And yes, I am trying to sell my 50 footer. It does cost more to dock and maintain. But the rewards are greater. More space, comfort and waaaay better accommodations then any 28, 36 or 38 footer. But I wouldn't tell someone with that size vessel that they should get a bigger one.
Heffe asked a question. How about just dealing with that instead of telling him what YOU think he should do or get.

Scott
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Old 06-09-2008, 22:28   #6
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Hi Goldie, good point on just commenting on the question at hand. But, I do understand the other posters stance. I for one was on the same mentality when first trying to decide which boat is best and I was on the same formula as on land. The bigger the better. I wouldn't even consider anything smaller than a 44 or 45. But after a long time researching and going on board many different yachts (and still doing so), we actually were VERY surprised to see that a 35 to 39 were more then enough for our needs.

I am still amazed that I would even consider a 35 but it makes total sense in every aspect. I will state that not knowing the Original Posters situation and stance, give that range a longer spectrum. You may be more surprised then what you would realize.

I'm just stating that leave any and all options option for size and options. Good luck with your search as I am in the same boat as you. Making sure that my first purchase is the right one for us.
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:19   #7
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Goldie, our friend Heffe states he has done no research, yet appears to be considering a purchase totalling a quarter million.

Those who took the time to reply started the "education" process that Heffe was, by his own admission, lacking. Thus, no need to flame.

Of course, bigger is better. Unfortunately, most of us have to make very carefully researched, educated decisions on what size boat we can live with.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:28   #8
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Goldie, our friend Heffe states he has done no research, yet appears to be considering a purchase totalling a quarter million.

Those who took the time to reply started the "education" process that Heffe was, by his own admission, lacking. Thus, no need to flame.

Of course, bigger is better. Unfortunately, most of us have to make very carefully researched, educated decisions on what size boat we can live with.
I hate to be repetitive. But Heffe asked for opinions of boats in the 45-55 ft range. Not what size boat he should get. He apparently knows what he wants. What he states he is lacking was information aboat those 2 particular boats as well as suggestions of boats within that size range. So he doesn't need to be told he should start small and the costs associated with owning a larger boat, etc, etc. That seems to be a common idea amongst these and other message boards. He may be a total newbie and completely ignorant about boats. But his post doesn't say that and he shouldn't be treated that way.
Had I known what I know now, I would have certainly started with a much larger boat then I originally bought. Fortunately, I have my own mind and didn't need anyone to tell me that. So I guess, being a big boat owner, I take offense at people with smaller boats always telling people that their way is the only way and how happy they'll be with a smaller boat and how terrible it is with a larger boat. Mainly because it isn't true.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:45   #9
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Kinda pointless to argue about what Heffe really needs to hear. Let's see what he has to say for himself!

p.s. I do know from experience that at some point in the process of making a complex decision, I didn't know enough to even know what I didn't know, but needed to know in order to make a good decision. Knowledge builds over time based on many inputs. One of the most valuable is being open to input from those who have direct personal experience with the subject at hand. Close your ears to advice beyond the limits of specific questions asked, and you risk missing the information that will lead you to the best decision.

That's where the diverse member base of Cruisers Forum comes in.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:59   #10
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"Kinda pointless to argue about what Heffe really needs to hear. Let's see what he has to say for himself."

That's precisely what I'm talking about. There's no arguing here. Heffe stated exactly what he's looking for. There's nothing further he needs to say. He simply wants his questions answered. If he wanted to know what size, type, make and model of boat everyone else thinks he should get, I'm sure he would have asked it that way. But he didn't.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:08   #11
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As a few have said, more or less, it is exceptionally difficult to give (even) opinions when we haven’t heard the use of the boat… there are a zillion boats in that size range, some are good for families, some for charter, some for fishing, some for occupying unused slip-space and little more, etc., etc… Assuming he does know what length he wants, for whatever reason, it is still challenging to recommend something –
  • How many folks will be on board,
  • What will the ages be,
  • Do we need interior volume or privacy for many couples,
  • Blue water or margarita queen
  • What…?
I agree that seems like a pretty sizeable vessel and potentially sizeable investment – bigger is better for folks who need bigger…
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:24   #12
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Good Morning
Thank you for all of your valuable information, all of your comments have merrit. I can assure you we will not purchase anything without extensive research, thats how I do things. I usally look at items I think that would fit then I start my research with the end result usally being something different. Its just my wife and myself most of the time however friends and family through out the year. This vessel would be our primary residence so comfort is something we are considering, whether 30 feet or 50 feet is adequate I'm not sure. I see us in ports for months at a time and the type of sailing would coastal. At this time open sea for large amounts of time is not in the picture. I'm sure this may change as my experience grows. I am 56 and fit as well as my wife, we have been living at ski resorts most of our adult lives and we are very active winter and summer. I am very skilled when it comes to woodworking, plumbing, electrical and mechanical things so the constant maintenence does not scare me. I know I have so much to learn and I embrace the opportunity, when we make the final desicion we will have the most important item on our side, time.

Thanks Again
Jeff
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:28   #13
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What will play a big part in my decision is the actual construction of the vessel. I need to educate myself on what makes a one boat better than another boat?
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:50   #14
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Heffe

My wife and I are at the same point, we have a pretty good idea of what we want, but are still looking at all possibilties. We too have been looking at the 45 to 50 ft range. One you might want to take a look at is the 47 or 50ft Gulfstar Sailmaster, as always you can read plenty of pro's and con's but so far most posts I see from owners love the boat. We know a couple here in Olympia Wa, that sailed a 50ft all the way to Turkey before they decided to sell her and head home. (after 4 years at see) I just recently read a book buy someone who raised 2 daughters on a 47ft (17 years). Good luck in your search, maybe we can compare notes as time goes by.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:59   #15
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Heffe

For your intended use most any modern cruiser class boat in Good Condition would be suitable. If you are not going to be crossing oceans anytime soon, I think you are wise to put an emphasis on layout and liveaboard comfort. Bearing in mind that all boats need work - pretty much continuously - one of the biggest differences between the two you mentioned is that one is less than 10 years old and the other is over 25. Maybe the Vagabond has been meticulously maintained and upgraded. But in general, a 25 year old boat will have some issues and need some serious work regardless of how bomb proof the original build quality was. For cruisers it's almost always more about condition than design.
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