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Old 23-12-2015, 12:49   #61
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
They will weld to each other.
Technically, they solder to each other! But what do I know? Not much according to some people.
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Old 23-12-2015, 13:24   #62
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Surprise! All metals shrink when cooling. Hot lead will push out the steel and when they both cool, guess what? Steel shrinks more then lead. They will weld to each other.
Reed, guess what? You are wrong! Thermal expansion coefficient for steel is 12, lead 28, both in units of microns per meter per degree K. That is, lead expands over twice as much as steel for a given temperature change. This information is available from many many sources... I used the online Engineering Toolbox.com to refresh my memory.

This accounts for the small gap that exists between the steel shell and the lead in the keel on my boat (about which I obviously know nothing).

Jim
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Old 23-12-2015, 13:29   #63
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Just goes to show you that even Jim Cate cant help himself but to comment on things he knows nothing about.
Delancy, that's not very nice. Do you really believe that?
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Old 23-12-2015, 13:34   #64
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Technically, they solder to each other! But what do I know? Not much according to some people.
It's all academic. Hasn't got a thing to do with the OP. I thought the coefficient of expansion was more on lead than steel but what do I know. Your right, it's not a weld it might solder? Somehow I doubt there is any bond other than pressure. Guess I need to go back to HS shop.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:19   #65
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Technically, they solder to each other! But what do I know? Not much according to some people.
Pro\

Probably not. Welding together under high heat and stress so they become molecular bond, not some intermediate metal holding them together(called soldering).
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:26   #66
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

You're not welding to steel at lead melting temp!
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:44   #67
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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You're not welding to steel at lead melting temp!
The molecular bond? I wonder where that came from?
At leads melting temp. steel warm.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:14   #68
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Some time ago came across a 34 foot steel cutter, rather small for using steel; but the interesting thing was the hull was rolled steel plates that wrapped around the hull. These were rather large plates in that only four plates made up the hull. The welds therefore were all vertical going from deck down to keel and back up to the deck on the opposite side. Hull was as smooth as a glass boat. The boat had to have been made in a foundry with a large, adjustable, steel press. The "ribs" seemed to have been added after the hull was made.
I'd love to see that method. I've seen many, including "origami" steel boats all put together flat on the ground and pulled up. It's a very forgiving material. Many of the errors are strictly cosmetic. As far as 34' being small, have you heard of Icebird? I think it did a circumnavigation of Antarctica back in the day, and even wintered over in ice. Too small? I don't know. How about Joshua at 40'? And a double ender 40 is pretty small by today's standards. I'd say Bernard M. did okay with Joshua!!!! (anybody who has not read his book, "The Long Way, should.)

My 48 footer's hull is plated with 3/16" mild steel, approx. 5mm mas o menos. 1/4" at the keel roots, with extra framing. 1/8 or 3mm on deck
For a steel yacht under 40', I'd go 1/8" / 3mm for the hull and deck. The comparative weights would still be in line. Not too heavy. I think Icebird was 1/8" plating. Can anybody say that Icebird was too weak? I can promise you, David Lewis did not worry in his bunk about his keel falling off! Hell, they wintered over in the ice in that boat!
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:45   #69
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

After reading all of these posts, I wonder if the OP will ever bother to ask a question on CF again. What a great welcome. OH WELL! _____Grant.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:47   #70
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

(From Amazon, for those who never heard of this story.)

Ice Bird: The Classic Story of the First Single-Handed Voyage to Antarctica

Imagine sailing alone for 14 weeks in freezing temperatures aboard a 32-foot {STEEL} sailboat. Imagine your boat capsizing three times, and losing your mast and rigging. And imagine doing all this without modern electronic navigational tools like the Global Positioning System. ICE BIRD: The Classic Story of the First Single-handed Voyage to Antarctica chronicles the author's 1972 trip from Australia to Antarctica aboard the sailboat ICE BIRD. Along the way, David Lewis sank into unbelievable despair as his small boat lost its mast, and he suffered frostbite and broken ribs. Eventually, he lost the use of his radio and engine, and was forced to hand-steer the boat. Though it was summer in the Southern Hemisphere, it snowed daily. Lewis faced gale-force winds and huge waves as he sailed 3,500 miles in his jury-rigged sailboat. Once I started reading this book, I could not put it down. It tells the wonderful, true adventure of a man forced to overcome serious injury, damage to his boat and unbelievable stress as he captained his small craft more than halfway around the world at 60 degrees south latitude. If you enjoy sailing, read Lewis's adventure. You won't be able to put it down. (The Ensign)

On paper, David Lewis's pioneering solo voyage from Sydney to Antarctica in 1972 doesn't sound like much, compared to the myriad of epic, sea-going adventures we're used to nowadays. But just a few pages into this gripping paperback, it's clear his horrific 23 weeks surviving towering waves, driving snow and a ceaseless, storm-force battering in the Southern Ocean can claim a proud place in the pantheon of nautical legend. No radio contact with home, three terrifying capsizes, two dismastings and frostbite left the middle-aged former doctor in mortal dread of his wild surrounds and saw him cowering inside the cabin for days on end. Lewis describes his lonely voyage in vivid prose and makes no bones about his navigational and practical mistakes along the way, or the conviction that gripped him for weeks after his dismasting that he would die on board. Lewis' disheveled arrival under jury-rig in the Royal Cape Yacht Club marina marks the end of an awesome tale as much a page-turner today as it would have been when it was first published 30 years ago. (The Dorset Echo)

There can't be many people who, when leaving school, inform their headmaster that they are making the 450 mile trip home in a canoe. While David Lewis's first epic voyage at the age of 17 may have left him feeling a little flat with the anticlimax, his marathon voyage to Antarctica in 1972 was a first for single-handed yachts. A welcome reprint, therefore, which thriller writer Hammond Innes described as the greatest small boat voyage into ice since Shackleton's. Although Lewis acknowledges that many sailors would follow him to Antarctica in faster and smaller craft, he saw his role as a trailblazer and the trip as a means of coming to know himself as he really was. Where better to find out one's strengths and weaknesses than being left without any form of outside support in one of the harshest environments known to man? In doing his research before making the trip, background information provided him with the odd sleepless night after reading of 100 ft waves. His previous yacht having sunk, he was also without essential equipment, not to mention money to buy a replacement craft. Media interest in the venture being strong, he admits in his book that he had to be downright dishonest in some of the things he told journalists, who did not realize, in the late stages of planning the venture, that he was still without a yacht. Frantic activity secured Lewis a yacht, a 32 ft steel sloop designed by Dick Taylor of Sydney. (Lloyd's List)


About the Author

David Lewis has published twelve books, including, We, the Navigators. He has made three solo Atlantic crossings, and became the first navigator in modern times to cross the Pacific without instruments, using only the sun and stars to steer by. A doctor, and an anthropologist, he now lives in New Zealand.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:50   #71
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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After reading all of these posts, I wonder if the OP will ever bother to ask a question on CF again. What a great welcome. OH WELL! _____Grant.
Ignore unwarranted hostility. Perhaps people are suffering in their personal lives. (To put the best face on it.) Life is too short. Chin up, smile, carry on. Stiff upper.
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Old 23-12-2015, 17:50   #72
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Travis, again, tip-o-the-hat!!! Really impressive.

It amazes me that someone would stand by their statement that you were unkowledgable because you did not feel you needed to see photos of the OP's keel to determine it would be fine inspite of distortons that occurred during a lead pour. Same for the other steel boatbuilders who agreed. The presumptuousness of it disappointing.

Just goes to show you that even Jim Cate cant help himself but to comment on things he knows nothing about.
I have taken my foot (both feet, with muddy boots) out of my mouth so many times in my life the taste is there forever. If being a jerk would get me excommunicated, I'd have been banished decades ago. But some folks took pity upon me, and they allow me back around the campfire now and then. I'm pretty forgiving of folks social blurts. Ask my wife. On a good day, that is mostly what comes out of my mouth or onto a keyboard.
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Old 23-12-2015, 18:23   #73
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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The molecular bond? I wonder where that came from?
At leads melting temp. steel warm.
Ah, good old stupidity rises again. At least we owned a ship yard . And you? Does not take much to heat steel. Go heat a pot on your stove. You do have a stove,dont you? Well, as they say, casting pearls before swine....
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Old 24-12-2015, 10:28   #74
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

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Ah, good old stupidity rises again. At least we owned a ship yard . And you? Does not take much to heat steel. Go heat a pot on your stove. You do have a stove,dont you? Well, as they say, casting pearls before swine....
That's not worth a response. God Yul or Merry Crhistmas
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Old 24-12-2015, 14:04   #75
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Re: Bumps on a steel keel

Not sure how interested any of you are in art but thought at least a couple of you guys would get a kick out of some of Richard Serra's work if you haven't seen it before. Mostly produced at Bath Iron Works where they make pressure hulls for submarines or else in Germany. You're looking at 4" thick steel in these photos. Pretty bad-assed stuff. Enjoy!

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