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Old 14-02-2008, 14:14   #1
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Boat for the Three Amigos

Hi,

Recently two of my very good friends and myself have decided to pool our funds and purchase a mid size cruising sailboat. Us three have been the best of friends for a very long time and have been on many adventures together. The two of them have very little experience on the water but I have sailed my dad's 28' O'day through out New England and have practically rebuild the boat twice.

Our plan is to purchase a ~35' boat for under $30k, not including repairs and outfitting. We want to start island hopping around the Caribbean and hope to eventually circumnavigate. However, this wont need to be a live aboard as we each will still have a home. I've been looking at boats in this range and have noticed that a lot of the interiors are not laid out for each of us to have our own cabin or at least a permanent bed. The only boat that I have found that has a lay out that I like is the C&C Landfall. Any suggestions guys.
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Old 14-02-2008, 15:16   #2
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I think it will be hard to find a 35 foot boat with 3 seperate cabins. Good luck pal.
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Old 14-02-2008, 18:06   #3
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Originally Posted by ScratchBC View Post
Hi,

Recently two of my very good friends and myself have decided to pool our funds and purchase a mid size cruising sailboat. Us three have been the best of friends for a very long time and have been on many adventures together. The two of them have very little experience on the water but I have sailed my dad's 28' O'day through out New England and have practically rebuild the boat twice.

Our plan is to purchase a ~35' boat for under $30k, not including repairs and outfitting. We want to start island hopping around the Caribbean and hope to eventually circumnavigate. However, this wont need to be a live aboard as we each will still have a home. I've been looking at boats in this range and have noticed that a lot of the interiors are not laid out for each of us to have our own cabin or at least a permanent bed. The only boat that I have found that has a lay out that I like is the C&C Landfall. Any suggestions guys.
I know this isnt what you asked for but are you really keen on working on boats? By that I mean a 35' boat for under $30k is going to need a LOT (trust me I know)

If you factor how much the three of you will actually use the boat you might find you are all waaay better off taking your $50k (if you['re lucky you'll only spend $50k in the final analysis of your "under 30k" boat) and chartering frequently.

The other benefit here is that in the likely event one of the three of you ceases to be keen on boat ownership you have no drama dissolving a partnership and get to keep your friends.

$50k buys a LOT of chartering I would imagine and you woudl be suprised how many boats with good intentions stay on the dock accumulating maintenance/moorage fees.

If you REALLY want to buy a boat why not get a nice cheapo weekender (Catalina 30? Pearson 26?) something that will have high demand in your local area and have great resale value. If after awhile you three find you just use the thing too darn much and wish it were 9 feet longer you can easily resell it and upgrade to that big investment boat.

Just a few ideas, worth what you paid for them. :-)
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Old 14-02-2008, 18:17   #4
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Sorry...but the first thing that comes to mind is "Rub a Dub-Dub...Three Men in a Tub". You guys may be the best of friends now but being couped up on a 28 foot O'Day circumnavigating the world will be a challenge for even the best of buddys. Larger boats ARE more comfortable, generally more seaworthy with exceptions of course and more expensive by a cubed factor for a given length. Also, the expenses don't stop after you pay for the boat. I think you need to step back and decide if it would be best to timeshare the boat with one another and cruise locally and perhaps further down the road purchase a serious ocean cruiser. It's one thing to do weekend trips or one week trips and quite another thing to spend months on a boat. My gut feeling is you will have "three foot-itis" real soon...a disease that afflicts most boat owners. They are mostly seen walking around at boat shows mumbling to themselves saying, "If only my boat was three feet longer".

Have you looked through YachtWorld for a boat in your price range?
Advanced search for new and used boats and yachts. - YachtWorld.com
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Old 14-02-2008, 18:33   #5
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Your plan may or may not be the best way to ruin what up until now sounds like a great friendship. How about forgetting the purchase of a boat right now and do some chartering in exotic places together and get the feel of different boats and their layouts and after a while if it still looks good to ALL of you then start your search.
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Old 14-02-2008, 19:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamY View Post
I know this isnt what you asked for but are you really keen on working on boats? By that I mean a 35' boat for under $30k is going to need a LOT (trust me I know)
I don't want to belittle my own effort, but I purchased my 41' LOA for under 10k. Put around 3k into it, sailed it (with some ICW) down the east coast without too much work. I'll probably put about 1,500 more into it this year before heading down to the caribbean.

In the end I will probably have close to 10k into into her. but that will still be 10 grand below these guy want to initially invest.


All the same:
Quote:
$50k buys a LOT of chartering I would imagine and you would be surprised how many boats with good intentions stay on the dock accumulating maintenance/moorage fees.
I have to say I agree with this. Best to invest a little money and make sure this is a good idea before a lot of money gets locked up and friendships get ruined.

Fastest way to kill a friendship is to get money involved with it.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Some of you might be noticing, I'm really proud of my boat, and I've been posting this picture of it a lot. but here I go again... my 13,000 boat:
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Old 14-02-2008, 19:23   #7
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Don't know, 35 ft...3 cabins? might be some old charter boats that split the aft cabin to accomodate a crowd. Actually just checked Practical Sailor's Practical boat buying
reference book. Hunter made a 34 fter in the mid 1980's some with 3 cabins so they are out there. This is not a recomendation! I don't consider a mid 80's Hunter a cruising boat. Sounds crowded to me but if it gets you on the water go for it. If interested in the Hunter info, private message me your fax # I will forward info and I suggest you contact PS for a set of boat buying books, may save you a lot of foot work.
Good luck!
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Old 14-02-2008, 19:55   #8
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Chad.lawie:
Post More pictures.
$13,000 I am very impressed so far.
If the rest looks as good as what little we can see here you got a great deal and have a nice boat. You could make money finding those boats for resale .....
Ahhhh but something tells me hyou either got lucky or you looked long hard and patient or all 3 .......
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Old 14-02-2008, 20:14   #9
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Aloha Scratch BC,
Welcome to the world of sailing opinions. Go for it! You can find what you want but will be doing a lot of shopping to get what you want at your price. Start looking now.
Good Luck,
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Old 14-02-2008, 22:33   #10
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Do you really like working on old boats?

Having brought a boat that needed much fixing and upgrading I'll second the comments about old boats.

I know of one old boat with multiple owners. One is always working on the boat, one comes sometimes and one is never seen.

If you want to go sailing (as opposed to fixing) then charter in some nice spots until all of your issues are settled.

It is very easy to misjudge the amount of work in an old boat.
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Old 14-02-2008, 23:08   #11
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Thanks for the replies.

We have though about the option of chartering but we just don't like that idea. its ~10k for a month. In all honesty buying a boat isn't going to happen any time really soon, and if it does I'll probably be the one buying it. I'm a med student; one of my friends is an artist and the other a journalist. We've been friends since freshman year of high school. We all realized that we spend a good deal of money traveling and how great it would be to just go and not have to deal with flights and hotels. The whole idea is to get away from pay the man, so to speak.

What I'm really asking is what boat would you suggest for 3 adults for some extended blue water cruising. I do have to say that my artist friend has a great deal of time and wouldn't mind fixing and refitting the boat. Any suggestions?
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Old 15-02-2008, 08:28   #12
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Any time soon may be the best time of all.
Prices on used boats are very low right now.
The time needed to refurbish a cheap boat is years not days weeks or even months.
Do you have any of the skills that will be needed.
Mechanical, Carpentry, Electrical, Fiberglass Repair, Painting.
I am a retired Union Electrician . I spent 4 years in trade school learning my craft and I got pretty good at it over the years. But I still bought a couple books dealing with Boat electrics and electronics and read them cover to cover. I have built everything from a Dairy Queen to a Double headed Nuke and it really didnt prepare me all that much for what I was about to inter into to. Other than doing it in a truly workman like manner.
Boats are 12 volts just like cars and there they stop being similar JSYK!
I have seen some absolute crap over the years that Mr or Mrs. handy home maker / pencil pusher for a living has done and they thought it looked good, they felt as well, that it would stand the test of time OMG!
Have you ever done or built anything in the past?
Do you own any tools ? Tools could easily run a $1000 and just as easily $2000 or more.
I am sure you dont want this project to turn out looking like some 8th grade wood shop project by 3 - 13 year olds. . .
JSYK the going rate for work done in a marina is running (coast to coast border to border) $60 to $140 an HOUR! and the guy who is doing the work is making $8 to $24 an hour and THAT is the quality your paying for not the first figure so that is what you will get btw I have also seen some really crappy totally incompetent work coming out of Marinas.
There are some really good books out there and even if hyou never attempt this project , I would suggest you spend a hundred dollars or so and buy several of them. Read them cover to cover dont skip even one word it will be information you can benefit from for a life time.
Well good luck fair winds. You can accomplish just about anything with the right attitude and desire.
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Old 15-02-2008, 10:44   #13
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Divecoz makes some excellent points – on the otherhand conscientious amateurs have been turning out works of art for centuries… slowly.

I’ve been in three-way boating partnerships with friends and it worked nicely – friendship lasted; however, within a couple of years the boating partnership became a thing for the history books… I’ve followed behind marine professionals only to throw their electro-handiwork over the side and rewired it myself so It would work (I’m one of the afore mentioned pencil-pushers), but the point here is not to run against conventional wisdom, far from it, but to remember that even if amateurs can do it all – and most things in recreational marine are not rocket science – they will do it slowly, excruciating slowly, they will make miss-steps and eventually they will probably save very little cash for all their sweat equity – if they like puttering on projects they will enjoy themselves along the way, if not then eventually they’ll hire the professional to unsnarl the mess they’ve created or they’ll abandon the effort altogether…

In my book, your budget is more than generous for a nice, reliable boat that will cruise three friends – but the minute you’ve raised the requirement of three separate cabins – oomph… the universe of possibilities shrinks frighteningly… trying to save money by investing sweat equity will probably mean that one or all three of you become the vessel’s maintenance officers and no one will have time to be the helmsmen… but assuming the “crew” already possess the needed skills and aptitude, along with the time and tools as Divecoz said, it could work… otherwise these projects take on a life of their own – and often it isn’t a life of sailing.

If cruising is really the prime objective, I’d try to compromise on getting the best boat mechanically and above decks that y’all can afford, and accept the cabin arrangements that come with `em – unless they are totally unacceptable… it’s become popular in the past thirty years to concentrate on the layout, accouterments and techno-gizmos lurking in the cabin, but few of these doodads, except for the bilge-pump (and the auxiliary, I suppose), have much to do with actually keeping the boat moving – in those cases seems to me the issues might be rethought, assuming dockside living was not the original priority…
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Old 15-02-2008, 10:46   #14
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I don't want to belittle my own effort, but I purchased my 41' LOA for under 10k. Put around 3k into it, sailed it (with some ICW) down the east coast without too much work. I'll probably put about 1,500 more into it this year before heading down to the caribbean.

In the end I will probably have close to 10k into into her. but that will still be 10 grand below these guy want to initially invest.
This is true,

I have seen a few privateers out there for a bargain. Also you could get a classic wooden boat (if you were keen on wood) for a super bargain. However that privateer has a clipper bow and a sprit, doesnt have much deckhouse on her (nice seaworthiness feature but not so great for headroom) and doesnt look too beamy from that picture (another nice seaworthiness but not so commodius feature) so I am betting you wouldnt get your three staterooms ;-)

Of course a good point was brought up, you could each buy an old fixer upper wooden boat for yourselves for $10k and then have a "fleet" ;-)

That said, you likely arent gonna find a Morgan Out Island for 30k that doesnt need a lot of work (money).

I am not the kind of guy who will tell you that you "cant" do something. I got really tired of the sailing dogma when we were prepping Estrella so I will say you three can do anything you focus your energies on.

That said, I believe if you are on any kind of budget (read, not super rich) and you want to go cruising... the only way to make it happen is to focus only on it and have a date.

If you are a medical student and your friends are artists and journalists they would likely need to put all that aside to focus solely on getting the cruising kitty filled while prepping the boat.

Also, I have bad news about "the man" he is EVERYWHERE. if you do a cost benefit analysis you will see that your airfare and hotel fees come out to a lot less in the end than the boat will. Even if you never leave you will be paying monthly moorage (whether you're traveling at the time or not) maintenance on the boat, equipment, diesel fuel and lots and lots of your time.

Cruising is not an inexpensive way to see neat places, it is a very expensive way to see neat places. Yes on our leanest month we only spent $300 for the whole month but when you factor what we both would have earned that month we spend closer to $3000 ;-).

If you just have a dream you want to fulfill despite the crazy expense and realities of it all, I suggest you get on it. Get busy buying and saving, there is no time like the present. But if you're just kind of thinking it might be a neato lark to go "circumnavigate" I would strongly suggest saving your cash and doing some chartering.

As for the "$10k/month" comment. We mean go for a 2 week trip and split the cost. It will give you a better idea if you want to live on a boat full time and cruise and it will cost you a fraction. By no means are any of us suggesting you "circumnavigate" on a charter ;-)

Best of luck,
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Old 15-02-2008, 10:59   #15
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In principle I think 3 friends could put up with cramped conditions and have a blast island hopping in the Caribbean. However, for a reasonably good condition boat in your price range, you can't afford to be to picky about layout. Most older 35 footers will have a V berth, a quarter berth, and convertable settee. I think you just have to get used to the idea that someone will be sleeping in the salon - maybe you can take turns.

You might want to consider looking at boats that are already in the Caribbean. Here's a C & C 38 that might be a good one - no Bimini or dodger:

1988 C&C 38 Wing Keel Boat For Sale=
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