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Old 15-11-2012, 18:43   #301
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Irrelevant..................Irrelevant............ .....This whole forum is Irrelevant......
Get real.......geeeezzzz
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Old 15-11-2012, 18:53   #302
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

But its funny,
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Old 15-11-2012, 19:21   #303
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Rather than posting remarks that one boat or another is a coastal cruiser at best, and not really a blue water sailboat, why not list the experiences your sailboat has accomplished and let everyone learn from the experiences.

I know my Clipper Marine 32 has seen blue water off the coast of California and I am pretty sure most shippable sailboats are a great deal stouter than owner trailerable sailboats.

When a thread boils down to my dad can whip your dad, we really should call it a day, and move on.

I have nothing to add really, only having sailed in Nebraska, but I dislike posts where someone on type" A" sailboats, knocks someone in type" Z" sailboats. Zip it and find common ground where everyone is enjoying what they have and not saying hurtful things about another brand of sailboat.

I feel sorry for all of you, as William Crealock did not make enough CM 32's to go around. You guys will just have to make due with what you have. Lol
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Old 15-11-2012, 19:23   #304
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Interesting thread.... we're currently in a boatyard upgrading and replacing some stuff, one of which happens to be the through-hull depth transducer. So we pound it out, order a replacement and in the meantime the original non-functional tranducer is hanging by a cord out the bottom of the hull. Our neighbor boat, redoing his bottom paint, happens to look into the hole and says "Holy Sh&*, your solid fiberglass hull is literally more than an inch thicker than mine.... And that's true....

We knew when we bought the boat that it could go around the world.... but we found out in the meantime (after more than 12,000 miles under the keel at this point, from Annapolis to Cartagena, Colombia and back) that we have no desire to go through that canal and go around the world.

Does that mean we overbought the boat? Maybe... but it IS comfortable and feels safe in threatening situations. It's also much slower than many of the newer faster boat designs.... Learn as much as you can about what YOU need, don't listen to others....
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Old 15-11-2012, 19:27   #305
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

What! Two posts without a mention of Murphy, now we know this thread has run it's course. Oh no, i just mentioned him again, damn, now it will go on.

Coops.
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Old 15-11-2012, 21:16   #306
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Originally Posted by Ballenxj

So, would you sail off shore with a MacGreggor 26?
I wouldn't be caught dead in a macgreggor 26. This is by far the ugliest boat I know of.
But I'm seriously thinking of getting a Hanse 415. Especially after reading this thread...
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Old 16-11-2012, 07:28   #307
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
vtcapo, Ive listened to your "murphy" nonsense, biting my lip, but really. Lets leave aside your Murphy comments. In general sailing is a very safe sport, its not even regarded as an extreme sport. Where I live everything is "high latitude" , even here insurance is cheap. Fact is Sailing is not a dangerous activity.

WORST CASE, sure sure, but the fact is you cant define WORST CASE, you just read about in books. Then you extrapolate that into your current design ( you do undertand that Slocum was lost at sea!, not to mention been ship wrecked several times!!! LOL), There are many NAs that will argue that Slocums Spray was no a ocean capable vessel!!

Let me tell you I have seen many sail in mid latitudes that were "ignorant" and unprepared, it is testimony to modern production boats. that such trips almost inevitably end successfully.



No as was pointed-out 2" bulletproof glass isnt any better then 1" if the design simply requires 1". Heavy isnt strong. Modern GRP boats are more then sufficient hull integrity ( as its proven by record) Most deck hardware is now mass manufactured by proven global players etc. Building or buying a boat with more"hull integrity" is wasteful, expensive and confers no additional befit. its also vodoo engineering , ie no facts just wishful thinking , (mind you please define that)Please just open you eyes and look around.



Constant reference to a mythical character to justify anything is just nonsense. An investigation into failure modes and what happens is far more useful. what this shows ( in general)

(a) Few fatalities or vessel loss at sea, are weather related

(b) Injuries/medical attention requiring extraction are most often caused by simple accidents on board or pre-existing conditions

(c) Keel and rudder failure has happened, but is a tiny percentage of designs afloat, almost always has an extenuating circumstance. Full keels, especially full keel GRP boats have as many problems as any other. Steel vessels also are not as strong as portrayed , especially steel leisure vessels.

(d) WORSE CASE, thats a "case" you cant determine, most likely when it comes, it will come from an area you didnt think off. ( Thats what makes it WORSE CASE). more then likely all your preparations will come to nought. You will then rely on your experience, your ability to solve problems and your common sense. Relying on "things" is foolish.



What a nonsense question, what does that mean . left brain , right brain, Everyone has booth sides. Why would I sail anywhere on a Asian boat , when I can have good german/french engineering!!!!!!.

Dave
My Asian boat (more of which are STILL out cruising than perhaps any other design) has been RTW once already and has probably done half that distance again in bluewater under various owners. She's ready to go again once her owner (me) gets his act together.

Oh, and she's 35 years old. I'd say that "Asian engineering" has held up just fine, thank you very much.
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Old 16-11-2012, 07:57   #308
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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My Asian boat (more of which are STILL out cruising than perhaps any other design) has been RTW once already and has probably done half that distance again in bluewater under various owners. She's ready to go again once her owner (me) gets his act together.

Oh, and she's 35 years old. I'd say that "Asian engineering" has held up just fine, thank you very much.
I can see you love your boat. I respect that. I also respect the fact you chose her for a reason.

Based on that fact; how many hurricanes has she been through?

I don't want statistics of other hulls like her. I want the information on her. Don't count the hurricanes/cyclones/typhoons where she was tied/anchored.

I think this is a good rating system for true blue water.

1 = owner was caught by surprise, survived the storm(whew!)
2 = wow, this guy is nuts or uninformed.......tough boat.(Do you know how to read a forcast?)
3 = I'm a glutton for punishment, bring it on!!(hmmm.....maybe he's a sadist)
4 = Nothing makes me seasick, I live for waves. (scale is tipped towards lunacy)

Anything above 1 and truly on the water not anchored is what I consider blue water for that boat. (I didn't say that design)

Good luck is the best thing a person can have if caught in a severe storm. I just try not to rely on luck. NOAA and other weather reporting systems make much of the "blue water" debate academic (with some good judgement).

Based on most debates US Airways Flight 1549 would be a good designed blue water airplane. Nope, all aircraft can do the same thing, some better than others. They just had some skill on board, and a huge amount of good luck.

If that rating makes you feel better, that is great. I don't think it makes much difference after that, within reason anyway.

James L
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Old 16-11-2012, 08:57   #309
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
4 = Nothing makes me seasick, I live for waves. (scale is tipped towards lunacy)
It seems you're rating the sailor, not the boat. Indeed, it seems that the logic driving your theory here is the fear of hurricanes.

For me, that's never been a consideration when choosing a boat. I feel sorry for those who purchase boats based on their fears rather than their nautical aspirations.
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Old 16-11-2012, 09:28   #310
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It seems you're rating the sailor, not the boat. Indeed, it seems that the logic driving your theory here is the fear of hurricanes.

For me, that's never been a consideration when choosing a boat. I feel sorry for those who purchase boats based on their fears rather than their nautical aspirations.
+1!

Sailing boats, in contrast to lifeboats, should be build to sail, not to survive (the worst imaginable conditions).

It does not matter if the boat is light or heavy, fine foils or long keel. As long as she is well built, they will all make it to the other side.

Most cruisers tend to sail the easiest routes, in the best times of the year. I can't see how a modern production boat could be seen unseaworthy of such passages.

b.
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Old 16-11-2012, 09:33   #311
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It seems you're rating the sailor, not the boat. Indeed, it seems that the logic driving your theory here is the fear of hurricanes.

For me, that's never been a consideration when choosing a boat. I feel sorry for those who purchase boats based on their fears rather than their nautical aspirations.
Nope, not fear, what the boat can handle. The comments were to lighten the subject up.

Everyone wants to compare, but the true test is what the boat can handle.

I don't chose based on what the boat can handle. I base it based on what I can (or think I can) handle. That is the importance of the choice.

Nautical aspirations should include "what if". If they don't, then no realistic consideration has been given.

Like I stated, this is within reason. Weather is not totally predictable, but is much more predictable with our current technology.

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Old 16-11-2012, 13:34   #312
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
I
1 = owner was caught by surprise, survived the storm(whew!)
2 = wow, this guy is nuts or uninformed.......tough boat.(Do you know how to read a forcast?)
3 = I'm a glutton for punishment, bring it on!!(hmmm.....maybe he's a sadist)
4 = Nothing makes me seasick, I live for waves. (scale is tipped towards lunacy)
you need to add one:

5 - it has been howling outside and the waves have been breaking over the boat for 48 hours and I'm been below, curled up in a little ball, crying for my mommy, and wishing that this modern production boat would finally break in half because I just want to die, but it just wont and keeps floating along

this is the real world of when people really call for a rescue and abandon their boats, the boat later is found with torn up sails floating along just fine without those stupid people on it that shouldn't have been out in the forecasted weather to start with!
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Old 16-11-2012, 13:53   #313
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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you need to add one:

5 - it has been howling outside and the waves have been breaking over the boat for 48 hours and I'm been below, curled up in a little ball, crying for my mommy, and wishing that this modern production boat would finally break in half because I just want to die, but it just wont and keeps floating along

this is the real world of when people really call for a rescue and abandon their boats, the boat later is found with torn up sails floating along just fine without those stupid people on it that shouldn't have been out in the forecasted weather to start with!
Don,

Although I know you are serious, it made me laugh.

The numbers represent how many hurricanes the boat has been through (on water, not tied or anchored), not the stages of fright.

Still that is the scenario most people should consider if they are a "gung ho" type, that doesn't check the weather.

James L.
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Old 16-11-2012, 13:53   #314
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I agree that what is important is the capability of the sailor. There is a "comfort ratio" that is an indicator of how safe a boat is at sea http://www.sloopit.co.uk/sailing/br_calc.asp But one of the most dangerous things at sea is exhaustion and some boat are alot more work in bad weather (a friend with a Catalina 30 pointed out to me even though his boat was more work in nasty weather it was a more comfortable live aboard).....the boats that are called "blue water boats" are more sea kindly than boats refered to as "cruiser/racers"
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Old 16-11-2012, 14:01   #315
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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.....the boats that are called "blue water boats" are more sea kindly than boats refered to as "cruiser/racers"
I don't really disagree with this. But the sea kindly boat stops being sea kindly mostly waaaay before the boat is in danger. The heavy displacement boats are going to be more forgiving in a storm up to a point, then it just wouldn't matter because as far as the sea goes a sailboat is just a bug on the surface. Comfort on a boat is lost way before the boat itself is in danger. For the most part the problem with boats is the people on them!
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