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Old 17-12-2014, 10:58   #16
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Id take a look at the Gemini 105Mc, fast, stable & shoal draft
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Old 18-12-2014, 07:07   #17
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Thanks Scout and Chasing. The seaward IS a cool design like the Gemini. In fact the Gemini, or more specifically the renovated Legacy had occupied my #1 spot until I sailed on it at this year's Annapolis Take the Wheel event. After that brief experience, I lost all interest. If I went with that platform, it would have to be the Legacy 35 as the redesigned Gemini. The new version dumped the problematic Stilleto drive and redesigned the cockpit and interior but i think that evolution will be the demise of the business model as it is now over priced ($255k) and under performing compared to the multihulls it intends to compete with.
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Old 18-12-2014, 10:32   #18
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Have you considered the Southerly 32 or 36? I have sailed on a larger one and was very impressed. Not nearly the production numbers of a Beneteau or Jeaneau, but a well respected manufacturer and very shallow draft with the keel up.
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Old 18-12-2014, 11:49   #19
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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Appreciate your insight Steadman. To stay on topic, PM me with links to your more recent sites as I am fascinated with learning how creative minds evolve their use of digital to expand their personal experience of being in the world.

I do seriously like gunk holing on a beachable boat, my last one being a quite used Hobie 16 that waited for me in the parking lot of my Navarre Beach condo but that's all gone now as a casualty of hurricanes and economic meltdown. Being fortunate enough to recover from all of that, my next boat purchase has to balance against my current land base, available funds to sustain the lifestyle and satisfying our appetite for coastal cruising with some level of amenity. I will take another look at the 32RK though as your points are appealing. She's got to buy into it, and our first 32RK pass did not excite her like the salon and huge cockpit of the Oceanis 35.

So I need a stable platform that is large enough for temporary loading of whatever we need for the next three week cruise and small enough to be affordable over time. I sense a theme emerging that feels like any specialty use like beachable or true blue water capability comes at a cost. The idea of refining a sailing profile is an important aspect of purchase. This thread and its results helps to that end.
Hi Again.

I enjoyed reading your remarks above. I understand.

One of the values of an open discussion like this is learning the views of others so we may better evaluate our own views. As I see it, looking at one's own opinion from a different perspective is conducive to learning and growth.
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It seems you have a good handle on what you like and don't like. So, I suspect that any boat you buy will bring you satisfaction as you are giving a lot of thought to which one to get.
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Old 18-12-2014, 15:06   #20
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

I looked at the Seawards quite a bit and have done some 10 day cruises on them. Toured the factory a number of times. My impression is, they are very well built, top quality everything.

They don't sail so well (slow) check the sail area to displacement. They don't point real well.

The interior space is not well utilized. Water leaks are a problem.

I was concerned with the mechanism used to raise and lower the keel, I can see that being a problem and when it is will be very hard to work on. The vessel will sustain a lot of damage if the keel does ground out, even on a sandy bottom.

The rudder can be easily raised and lowered but it will not kick up in case of a grounding, could be very expensive repair. Once the rudder comes up you don't have much control of the vessel, not good in a narrow channel or shallow Marina.

Trying to turn into a slip with the keel almost all the way up is a real challenge.

I think if a trailerable boat is what you need it is a consideration.

Everything is a compromise on a boat.

I think there are lots of shoal draft boats to choose from. We live on a 35 ft boat very comfortably for 5 months at a time with a dog. So length wise you have it right.

Under 35 ft makes it cheaper to cruise the Bahamas, more important if you are not going for a longer cruise. It is better to pay $150 for a two week cruise than $300 for a boat that is only a foot longer !

Good luck, Bob
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Old 18-12-2014, 17:27   #21
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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.[*]Thin water sailing in Florida coastal areas. 5' draft max. ..
I don't see what is the problem with the choice since the Jeanneau 349 is the only one that offers a modern swing keel that offers with low draft the same performance of a deep draft boat. Of course if performance does not matter to you, just choose the boat you like the interior more.

The Seaward 32 looks interesting to me but it is a much smaller boat, not only in length as well as in beam. It looks also a very expensive boat. Does anybody knows the price?

PS, in 2011 it costed $167,900. Now it should cost probably close to $190,000
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Old 18-12-2014, 18:44   #22
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Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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I don't see what is the problem with the choice since the Jeanneau 349 is the only one that offers a modern swing keel that offers with low draft the same performance of a deep draft boat.
Ahh, the choice is not simple as the Oceanis 35 literature depicts a keel configuration described as "Drifter Draught" (tirant d’eau dériveur) measuring from 4' 2" to 7' 10" which is also the heaviest ballast---4,950 lbs---of the three configurations.

The Seaward fell off my short list as its design intent falls outside my needs thanks to feedback on this thread. Good design, but won't meet my needs.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2015.../United-States
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Old 18-12-2014, 18:52   #23
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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Ahh, the choice is not simple as the Oceanis 35 literature depicts a keel configuration described as "Drifter Draught" (tirant d’eau dériveur) measuring from 4' 2" to 7' 10" which is also the heaviest ballast---4,950 lbs---of the three configurations.
Not sure If I follow you. Heavier means not more stable but certainly less fast. The Beneteau ballast is inside the boat and on that box, that's why it needs more for an equal, possibly less RM. The one of the Jeanneau is all on that big deep swing keel. There are some posts about that keel on my blog.
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Old 18-12-2014, 19:00   #24
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Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Polux, I did read your thread on the Jeanneau 349 swing keel and learned a lot. Thanks. I am just undecided about getting the boat with the bigger cockpit, salon and bunk size vs a technically better design. Yes, when you made that point about the decision it clarified it for me.

I cannot find further info on the Oceanis 35 drifter keel design. Is the ballast in fact all in the keel box?
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Old 18-12-2014, 19:41   #25
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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Polux, I did read your thread on the Jeanneau 349 swing keel and learned a lot. Thanks. I am just undecided about getting the boat with the bigger cockpit, salon and bunk size vs a technically better design. Yes, when you made that point about the decision it clarified it for me.

I cannot find further info on the Oceanis 35 drifter keel design. Is the ballast in fact all in the keel box?
I don't know.

I had read good reviews about the Oceanis 35 with that keel but enthusiastic reviews about the Jeanneau 349 with the new Swing Keel. If the interior of the Oceanis will not make a big difference for you, regarding sailing I would say that between the two short draft versions the Jeanneau is a better boat but that Swing keel from the Jeanneau is almost for sure more expensive.
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Old 21-12-2014, 08:52   #26
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Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Oceanis 35 drifter keel ballast is in the box. Am in San Diego and yesterday chatted with the knowledgeable broker about it at Suncoast Yachts. He knew his stuff as he just got back from France where he got the Group Beneteau tour. Also boarded the 349 Jeanneau as I found one for charter for four hours through Seaforth rentals. Matt at Seaforth was awesome in his local knowledge and generous with his time as he let us check out the new J349 they just placed into service. I have to say that seeing it outside of the sailboat shows changed my mind. The cockpit is small and interior tight, and was also concerned about the no back stay rig. I can imagine significant sail chafe from swept back spreaders when running.
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Old 21-12-2014, 09:25   #27
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Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

More views on topic...
Beneteau 38
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Old 22-12-2014, 18:39   #28
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

For those interested in the Jeanneau 349, I created a 349 specific web site and forum at Jeanneau 349. You'll find good information on it and hopefully, great discussions. Enjoy!

Thierry (J349 hull #48)
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Old 22-12-2014, 19:58   #29
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

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Oceanis 35 drifter keel ballast is in the box. Am in San Diego and yesterday chatted with the knowledgeable broker about it at Suncoast Yachts. He knew his stuff as he just got back from France where he got the Group Beneteau tour. Also boarded the 349 Jeanneau as I found one for charter for four hours through Seaforth rentals. Matt at Seaforth was awesome in his local knowledge and generous with his time as he let us check out the new J349 they just placed into service. I have to say that seeing it outside of the sailboat shows changed my mind. The cockpit is small and interior tight, and was also concerned about the no back stay rig. I can imagine significant sail chafe from swept back spreaders when running.
It seems to me that you have already choose the Oceanis 35 and are justifying your choice, not really trying to evaluate both boats.

The Oceanis 35 is a considerably beamier boat (3.4 to 3.7m) with a bigger interior due to that.

Regarding the low draft option there is any doubt that the Jeanneau with the swing keel is a faster sailboat than the Oceanis with the box keel. Even considering the Jeanneau with the swing keel (that has about the same performance as the one with a deep keel) I believe that in most circumstances the Jeanneau will be faster than an Oceanis 35 with deep draft. They raced one Jeanneau 349 as part of a test sail (on Australia ) and the results were this:

"On the work, the First stretched out in front of the first of the 1020s. Then the Sydney 36s started to push through and got us just before the line.
So at the end it was the First 38 who took the gun, followed by a 1020, the Beneteau 35, two more 1020s, a Sydney 36, the Bavaria 40, another Sydney 36, then us, closely followed by a fast-finishing First 50.
We’d scored a ninth out of about 40 boats on the water."

QUICK SPIN: We race Jeanneau 349 Boat News, Review & Advice - boatpoint.com.au

Regarding the Jeanneau cockpit being small it is not true, in fact is very big for a 34ft boat. Off course, the one from the Oceanis is positively huge since the boat has a huge beam.

In what concerns having no back stay to be a problem, the same designer of the Oceanis 35 on the much more sportive Pogo 10.50 didn't use one and I guess that if a much more sportive boat can pass without one without problem, probably the same can do the jeanneau 349.

Considering both boats with deep keel, probably the Jeanneau 349 is a more balanced boat between upwind and downwind performance, with a superior pointing ability and will sail better in lighter winds. The Oceanis 35 while having an overall good sailing performance it will only be faster with strong winds on a beam reach and downwind.

The interior is a completely different subject and regarding that the Oceanis, with less finer entries offer a larger front cabin and the bigger beam results on an larger interior.

Pick the one you like more, but both have advantages and disadvantages at least in what regards sailing.
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Old 23-12-2014, 19:25   #30
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Re: Best Cruisers under 35' - new to 2 years old

Have you had enough of the Seaward 32 suggestions?

Here's another one. I am biased We won't be in the market to replace our Seaward 25 for 4 or 5 more years, but when we do, it will be with a Seaward 32. No worries on resale. Even though they are a smaller manufacturer, the used ones don't stay on the market long, so long as the owners aren't unrealistic with pricing. Very loyal following.

As far as other production boats go, we liked the looks of the Bavaria line, when we saw them last fall at the Newport show.
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