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Old 28-06-2015, 09:04   #16
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

I think kite-style sail prices will vary hugely depending on what cloth you want. In extreme cases (light boat and less extreme sailing style) you can have a Zero ('Zero', by cruising standards) built in quality heavy nylon too. Then it will be like building any other kite sail - inexpensive, except such a Zero may last maybe 50% of life of a fine high tech sail (it will also cost 50%, or less, of such a sail).

Then think about buying more than one sail at a time - you may get a discount from your maker too for that.

I have seen well made nylon Zeroes built at about EUR 30 / sq m (+- 11 sq ft). This is exactly where a G sail would be if built in the same technology.

Kites are fantastic sails for anybody living in a predominantly light area.

Have fun spending money & sailing the dream.

PS A Zero built like that may be in your books more like a One - still, in the cruising context, it is where the Zero would be on a racing boat (in rough, but parallel, terms). I think.

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Old 29-06-2015, 01:00   #17
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

if a 0 is more like a number 1 kite (3/4oz) then its not worth it. my number 1 kite has never been used - it came as part of the sails package but the wind here is just too much for it.

a number 3 kite is 11/2oz and a number 5 kite is 2.2oz

was thinking of along the lines of number 3 kite material. where i sail kites are used regardless of conditions the wind here is either blowing a mini hoolie or a full hoolie or nothing at all - there really is little in between.

waiting for quotes to come back from various sail lofts that i've approached - still don't know.

ready made poles are from 400 upwards - fitting are another ton on top of that and then there's the work to reinforce the foredeck and forward superstructure -- don't know if its worth the hassle --- might as well buy a J/105 for what its worth
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Old 30-06-2015, 14:50   #18
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby tuesday View Post
if a 0 is more like a number 1 kite (3/4oz) then its not worth it. my number 1 kite has never been used - it came as part of the sails package but the wind here is just too much for it.

a number 3 kite is 11/2oz and a number 5 kite is 2.2oz

was thinking of along the lines of number 3 kite material. where i sail kites are used regardless of conditions the wind here is either blowing a mini hoolie or a full hoolie or nothing at all - there really is little in between.

waiting for quotes to come back from various sail lofts that i've approached - still don't know.

ready made poles are from 400 upwards - fitting are another ton on top of that and then there's the work to reinforce the foredeck and forward superstructure -- don't know if its worth the hassle --- might as well buy a J/105 for what its worth
When you say "nothing at all" are you talking dead calm or are is there still enough wind to fill the sails?

With my "code 1" I can point to something like 35-40 degrees in perhaps 5 knots true and get 3 knots speed. It allows me to sail when my heavy genoa really struggles. I can even pole it out DDW like an oversized genoa.

I watched the VOR inshore race in Auckland and in the light winds and many used their massive Code 0's on all points of sail for the whole course. It was a bit funny to see them beating into the wind and tacking by rolling in their code 0.

It the lighter winds I believe my code 1 would closely match the performance of a code 0 but once the wind head up to 10 knots, the stretch of the nylon means I cannot point as high any more. Now that I am getting a code 0 bowsprit I wish I had one, but I'll live with what I have.

I think a code 0/1 is a great sail for people who want to avoid motoring at all costs if possible.
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Old 30-06-2015, 15:09   #19
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

A good read about the code 0

North Sails: Code Zero (A0) Asymmetric Spinnakers

I got my North G2 a couple of days a go and I am looking forward to using it. I just need me mast back on
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Old 30-06-2015, 15:30   #20
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

yup i meant lots of wind or no wind.

it's nuts cos of the hills - they block out the wind unless its coming from a north / northwest position otheriwse wew just get "cockpit potato" synfrome.

the first sail loft price was £3500 so am expecting the rest to be roughly the same as that - which is a fair chunk for something that may end up stopping in it's snuffer.

with this one sail quote i reckon that i'm gunna be in for at least £4500

swings n roundabouts at the minute
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Old 01-07-2015, 01:43   #21
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

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yup i meant lots of wind or no wind.

it's nuts cos of the hills - they block out the wind unless its coming from a north / northwest position otheriwse wew just get "cockpit potato" synfrome.

the first sail loft price was £3500 so am expecting the rest to be roughly the same as that - which is a fair chunk for something that may end up stopping in it's snuffer.

with this one sail quote i reckon that i'm gunna be in for at least £4500

swings n roundabouts at the minute
Wow £3500 is expensive and I'm assuming that it is just the sail or does it include the roller?

For many many years, buying from the UK was a cheap way for me to buy new camera equipment and boat gear but in the last year or two, as the Swedish Kroner followed the Euro down, the UK has become expensive. I would have expected that the price of imported goods (camera equipment/sails from Asia) in Sweden would have jumped dramatically and the UK perhaps drop a little and thus the relative balance remain, but it hasn't.

I can't believe that I'm going to write this.... Why don't you look for sails outside of the UK, like Sweden.

I just received my G2 from North Sweden. The sail is 110sqm and cost £2500 (including 25% tax). I think they quoted me £300 for a snuffer but I got the selden adapter to put it on a roller but using the Selden CX25 that I already had. Shipping from Sweden to Greece cost me £550, but that also included shipping a 6hp outboard, so for you it would be dramatically less.

The down side at the moment, Sweden is pretty much shutdown for July so maybe they will be slow to respond.

Boding Segel: Boding Segel: Din segelmakare - Segel och segelkapell till alla bċtar, Furlex rullsystem och bċttillbehör My code 1 came from them
North Sails Sverige
Gransegel

Google translate can help you navigate the sites and they have no problem doing business in English
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Old 01-07-2015, 07:39   #22
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

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I think a code 0/1 is a great sail for people who want to avoid motoring at all costs if possible.
You mean, like when the last jerry can has been emptied?

;-)

Agreed, a Code 0 is a wonderful addition to a cruising boat's sail inventory, at least for those with boats with sufficient inherent performance to be able to benefit from them. No other single sail will so often make the difference between sailing, and motoring...

As you mentioned, they can be a surprisingly versatile sail, as well... More than many folks - or even sailmakers, perhaps - seem to realize...


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Old 01-07-2015, 08:03   #23
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

I think, in the cruising aspect, usability is mostly dictated by how very rough it is and how big the boat is.

Small boats in rough water will have problem to fully utilize the potential of their light sails like Zeroes and kites.

The bigger the boat and/or the flatter the water, the longer into the light winds a Zero or a kite can be flown.

Then again, 99% of cruisers just start the engine and get it done. The Zero and the kite is the right kit for those who love to SAIL.


IMHO

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Old 01-07-2015, 11:29   #24
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

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You mean, like when the last jerry can has been emptied?

;-)

Agreed, a Code 0 is a wonderful addition to a cruising boat's sail inventory, at least for those with boats with sufficient inherent performance to be able to benefit from them. No other single sail will so often make the difference between sailing, and motoring...

As you mentioned, they can be a surprisingly versatile sail, as well... More than many folks - or even sailmakers, perhaps - seem to realize...



I hate the motoring and try to avoid it when I can.

When I first heard of code 0, they were talked of as being a narrow focus sail. Now I think that a code 0 or whatever they call the nylon version should perhaps be the first asymmetric choice for a cruising sailor.



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Old 01-07-2015, 12:55   #25
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

everything is properly expensive here cos the pound strengthened bigtime against the euro and the dollar in the last 4 months alone.

sails are inclusive of snuffer but no furling gear - the price was for the slightly smaller of the two as well --- number 5 is smaller than a number 3 which is again smaller than a number 1 - hoping that you follow that

given that the price for the number 5 'A' inc snuffer and no furling gear stands at £3500, then it follows that a number 3 'A' is gunna be around the £3700 inc snuffer and no furling gear. a code 0 'A' would prolly stand me at around £4200 i'm guessing

my kites are mast head set - so the code 0 on my 32footer is gunna be roughly + 1/3 the size of a number 1 symmetric.

gunna have a look at importing them - but then there's 20% plus handling fees to add to any quote

i hate this country when it comes to importing stuff -- i get quite a lot of stuff from the states.
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Old 01-07-2015, 13:05   #26
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby tuesday View Post
everything is properly expensive here cos the pound strengthened bigtime against the euro and the dollar in the last 4 months alone.

sails are inclusive of snuffer but no furling gear - the price was for the slightly smaller of the two as well --- number 5 is smaller than a number 3 which is again smaller than a number 1 - hoping that you follow that

given that the price for the number 5 'A' inc snuffer and no furling gear stands at £3500, then it follows that a number 3 'A' is gunna be around the £3700 inc snuffer and no furling gear. a code 0 'A' would prolly stand me at around £4200 i'm guessing

my kites are mast head set - so the code 0 on my 32footer is gunna be roughly + 1/3 the size of a number 1 symmetric.

gunna have a look at importing them - but then there's 20% plus handling fees to add to any quote

i hate this country when it comes to importing stuff -- i get quite a lot of stuff from the states.
Buy from the Euro zone
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Old 01-07-2015, 13:58   #27
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

Plain vanilla for a small boat should not go beyond maybe 50 USD per each 10 sq ft.

Bigger sail, better cloth may be higher price sure. I think Cuben will be somewhere about the top end. (?)

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Old 01-07-2015, 14:17   #28
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

not even the big boys on the track go for cuben fibre cos it just rots in the UV rays too fast !!!!!

the kites are gunna have to come the EU maybe Doyle in Ireland ? dunno cos i've never seen their sails just an advert on a sailing jacket.

if she was fractional kite affair then those prices would be chopped a bit cos of less cloth but cos she masthead kited then its a whole different ballgame

keep looking at the piccies of the J/105 too -- thats not helping any
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Old 01-07-2015, 14:22   #29
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

cuben fibre is and always has been used only for headsails and mainsails (1) cos of cost (2) life expectancy - weeks not months

most of the lofts use contender kite cloth cos it lasts a bit longer than normal
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Old 01-07-2015, 17:10   #30
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Re: best asymetric sails for cruising

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not even the big boys on the track go for cuben fibre cos it just rots in the UV rays too fast !!!!!

(...)
Where I grew up I was taught Cuben is pretty good re UV degradation.

https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/technology

After all it is said to be high tech laminated Spectra, then UV degradation should not be much of an issue: the core material stands up to UV pretty well, and lamination gives us the chance to hugely improve on UV challenges.

As I am the guy who loves to be wrong PLS share your sources with us so that we can all grow and move ahead.

If you open Yachting Monthly you will find a good choice of Cuben sails every time. They can't be that delicate after all.

Cheers,
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