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barnakiel · 31-03-2015, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Yep. Pure guaranteed fake teak!!! A neighbour has a new Amel 55 in Turkey and the decks look exactly as in your piccy

Good job at Amel then. It does pass the 3ft test.

55 I have only seen from some distance and then up close and personal on the dry. From below she looked great. On the water she looked better than 64.

Too bad these are 'somewhat' beyond our present reach ;-)

Interestingly, their website is French, English and Russian.

b.

Steamer · 01-04-2015, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlylelk

Another thought... s t e e l and aluminum boats frequently have 1.5 to 3 inches of sprayed on insulation inside the hull. Much better than a fiberglass boat. Look out for corrosion though!

Anybody willing to go for a 65' s t e e l hull custom 2007 built boat @ Eur 400,000.- located in Turkey can PM me!

Eleuthera 2014 · 01-04-2015, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer

Anybody willing to go for a 65' s t e e l hull custom 2007 built boat @ Eur 400,000.- located in Turkey can PM me!

Why don't you post a link to the broker?

Steamer · 01-04-2015, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Why don't you post a link to the broker?

As requested: bs65-2007 - OCEANICA

Eleuthera 2014 · 01-04-2015, 08:35

NICE KIT! Who was the builder? Perhaps you should consider translating your site to English. Google translate does not do well from Russian to English, French, Dutch or Spanish... (the only ones I know)

Steamer · 01-04-2015, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

... Perhaps you should consider translating your site to English....

OFFTOP!
Thanks, El. The web-site still delivers to my Russian-speaking clients main ideas behind a pictures. For sure I will do something similar (or contrary different?!) in English when will be able to sort out different mentality and approach towards yacht building&sale&purchase between "east" and "west".
When time comes to discuss exact boat with "western" client we always switch over to English - the only international language I "know".

EST128 · 01-04-2015, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Good job at Amel then. It does pass the 3ft test.

55 I have only seen from some distance and then up close and personal on the dry. From below she looked great. On the water she looked better than 64.

Too bad these are 'somewhat' beyond our present reach ;-)

Interestingly, their website is French, English and Russian.

b.

Hello!

Sorry, writing in english is not my strongest ability

Russian - because they have money

It's selling strategy.
Amel 55 Arctic named OWL, on what we going north, owned too by russian billionairem who livs in Riga/Latvia and yacht registered under Lithuanian flag. One french guy in Amel speaks well russian, it's important, because russian like french or americans: zero foreign languages! But money talks in numbers

But the fake teak: yes, its fake and painted/moulded right in mould. It's "look a like" but qualities not same, what real wood gives. It's slippery but looks good and cleaning is simple. Better than regular topcoated/painted deck but real teak is best.

Amel vs H-R. Rassy is our region boat, world top quality like Svan, Najad or Nauticat. But price is quite high - it's scandinavian high salary "problem". Amel is like Rolls-Royce: topend mass-production vechicle and H-R like Mercedes G-wagen built by AMG and then tuned by Brabus

OK, our Amel is first, where factory made special "things" like kevlar reinforcement, davits, no garage/closed transom etc but for H-R works like that are regular.

But "in one thing" Amel is the best in the world: masts are Piece of Art! They looks better then even Oysters ones. Craftmanship is higest quality - you sit in cocpit and just enjoy the wiew!
Amel 55 under sails: good for blue water long distances with autopiloting but sporty sailing not the strongest point of Amel: center cocpit with plastic doghouse, you can't watch for sails etc. I talk with Amel people january in Boot/Düsseldorf but they even think about install two "sailing wheels" oh helms to the stern corners

or one. You sit like in cellar - good for bad wheather and night, bad for sailing in good conditions or narrow places. Scandinavia/Baltic Sea is mostly "narrow" - thousand islands, "skagare" in Sweden/Norway, shallow waterways and bays etc. But overall - Amel is great and good sailor!

Evastaffan · 01-04-2015, 10:42

I heard about that Russian boat going north, now I know the name! It might be a lot of extras (Amel 55 Arctic) on that yacht though, or is it mostly standard? Would be great to hear how they feel about being in the colder climate!

daysgoneby · 03-06-2015, 21:35

Yes a cored hull will insulate better and be lighter then a solid glass hull but this is not the only thing to consider.
Boat Hulls - Cores and Structural Issues: Online Articles by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

Hobie_ind · 18-06-2015, 20:46

HR vs Amel - Cruisers Forum

I realize I'm late to the discussion and the OP may have already decided his course. If not though, here's my thoughts to add to the discussion.

Background first:
- I own a 1994 Amel Super Maramu. We've now put about 7000 miles on her in the past 3 years. I sailed on an 1996 HR46 for almost 3 weeks in 2011 from Brisbane to Opua, NZ, then down with east coast of the North Island to Auckland. We also buddy boated on and off in the Caribbean,an HR46 for about a month a year ago.

Amel Pro's:
- Value for money. You're getting virtually the same capability for 1/2 to 2/3 the cost. Both are true bluewater cruisers, similar size, similar displacement, similar equipment, similar amenities (two fridges, watermakers, washing machine, etc), hard Dodgers, centre cockpit, similar storage, similar speed. I don't know that maintenance costs are much different though. The equipment list is pretty comparable between the two, with size and complexity being pretty much the same for the two boats. At least it is until you have to replace the teak decks on the HR!
- Maintenance. I felt the Amel systems were definitely more accessible for maintenance and having the dedicated engine room is a REALLY nice feature. Not having to remove companionways and side panels in the living area for routine maintenance is a feature I appreciate even more after having cruised on the boat for a couple of years. Plus having the If the HR has a generator installed it looked like access for maintenance would be a bear (essentially having to crawl over the main engine to reach parts of it).
- Short handed sailing capability. If the HR46 has in-mast furling, this is close to a wash, for all but downwind sailing. The downwind poles and sail setup on the Amel is truly much easier than the HR's setup and I regularly set up the twin headsails singlehanded. I'll also leave up the twin headsails longer than a lot of other boats will leave their cruising spinnakers because I can fuel them in so easily. I also love the ketch design for balancing out the boat and reducing sail sizes for easier sail handling.
- Other owner support. There is a great owners group on Yahoo. The other Amel owners I've met are much more DIY than many (but certainly not all) of the HR owners I've met, and therefore a much larger network of support from other owners seems to be available.

HR Pro's:
- Fuel capacity. I would love to have the HR's fuel capacity. It gives you more options IMO.
- Sailing performance. Clearly the HR will out point the Amel upwind. Having sailed for short periods alongside the HR46 in the Caribbean a few times I'll also have to give a slight edge to the HR on other points of sail. They've got a slightly longer waterline and a bit more updated underbody with a but more volume aft also. However, the points previously raised though about the Amel's ability to consistently knock out respectable day mileages is absolutely correct and I ultimately I think there's only minor real world differences here unless you're a sail tuning fanatic that's constantly driving the boat hard.
- Construction. Both are well built bluewater boats, with good reputable suppliers for all major systems, stainless tanks, fully glassed in bulkheads, strong rigging/chainplate construction, well integrated systems, etc, etc, etc, so I dont think there's a safety difference here. The Amel crowd may disagree here though, but I felt the construction of the HR46 was really nice and slightly better. Lead keel on the HR vs cast iron on the Amel is just an example of this.
- Aesthetics and layout options. I love our boat, but I also recognize that Amels are an acquired taste. Squarer lines, off-white gelcoat colouring, bulkhead steering position and the fake teak on the Amel just aren't everyone's cup of tea. The interior cabinetry work on the HR is nicer also, but of course that's part of the extra cost. If you need 3 proper cabins, that's available in the HR, but not the Super Maramu. It is on the Amel 54, but that's a completely different discussion. My wife much preferred the galley layout in the Amel than the HR, but that's a very personal preference and I'm confident that both work equally well in the end.

Other considerations:
- Factory support. Depending on where you are cruising I think this could be different. If you're in the Med or Caribbean you'd be close to Amel service centres and I know the one in Martinique was always very helpful and had good inventory on site. Outside of that though, I think HR may have a slight advantage. From talking to HR owners, HR's factory support is reportedly outstanding. Amel owners seem to have varying opinions on how responsive the Amel factory is for parts. Some love them, some curse them. I haven't had to order much from them directly so can't provide my own perspective.

Just my opinions. YMMV. Overall, I think either will do what you're looking for. It really just comes down to what you want, and how much you're willing to spend. If the aesthetics of the Amel are a deciding factor, and I know they are for some, you might consider an older HR49, if the cost of the HR46 is just too much. I did that, but in the end, the Amel won out for us. The ease of handling, maintainability and value for money were the deciding factors, and I just couldn't justify the extra expense of the HR46 for pretty much the same capability. HR49's that came up while we were looking were all older and needing some TLC, plus weren't typically as well set up for shorthanded sailing as the Amel.

Good luck,
Mark
Amel Super Maramu
Currently cruising: South Pacific with my wife, 15 yr old son and 13 yr old daughter

**Dockhead** · 19-06-2015, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by daysgoneby

Yes a cored hull will insulate better and be lighter then a solid glass hull but this is not the only thing to consider.
Boat Hulls - Cores and Structural Issues: Online Articles by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

A famously inaccurate article by self-described "neo-Luddite" (Are They Fiberglass Boats Anymore? by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor) which incorrectly paints all cored hulls with the same brush based on the techniques used by cheap American power boat producers from 30 years ago.

With the exception of Oyster, all of the main high end sailing yachts have had fully cored hulls for at least the last 20 years. That means Swan, HR, Contest, Discovery, etc., etc. Dashew's Sundeers are fully cored. Non-cored hulls are characteristic of less expensive high production boats.

Cored hulls are lighter and much stronger. Done properly, they are much more expensive than solid cores, but worth it if you can afford it. "Done properly" means using vacuum bagging, resin infusion, like "SCRIMP", and balsa blocks or high tech foam, techniques which didn't exist when boatbuilders first starting experimenting with coring fiberglass.

daysgoneby · 19-06-2015, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A famously inaccurate article by self-described "neo-Luddite" (Are They Fiberglass Boats Anymore? by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor) which incorrectly paints all cored hulls with the same brush based on the techniques used by cheap American power boat producers from 30 years ago.

With the exception of Oyster, all of the main high end sailing yachts have had fully cored hulls for at least the last 20 years. That means Swan, HR, Contest, Discovery, etc., etc. Dashew's Sundeers are fully cored. Non-cored hulls are characteristic of less expensive high production boats.

Cored hulls are lighter and much stronger. Done properly, they are much more expensive than solid cores, but worth it if you can afford it. "Done properly" means using vacuum bagging, resin infusion, like "SCRIMP", and balsa blocks or high tech foam, techniques which didn't exist when boatbuilders first starting experimenting with coring fiberglass.

"It seems the gentleman owns a foam cored boat himself without nary a problem. As a skeptic of foam cores, its been lonely out here over the years in face of so much promotion and fanfare for the material. However, he overlooked the point that I never said that foam couldn't be used successfully; it can and it is".
Marine Surveying : New Materials Again - by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor

The Use & Misuse of Moisture Meters
Don Robertson's Marine Marketplace - The Use & Misuse of Moisture Meters

A Real Cure for Osmosis?
Mustin Marine Surveys, Miami, Florida, USA - Hot Vac-A Real Cure for Osmosis?

Why Epoxy Is Preferable To Vinylester And Both Are Preferable To Polyester.
Why Epoxy is Preferable to Vinylester and both are Preferable to Polyester. | Multihull Design Blog

Ins and outs of cored composite construction
The Ins and Outs of Cored Composite Construction | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

The point of all this in not to rant on glass boats, it's to point out that buyer's should be aware of the potential issues with a given material and understand how the boat was built before spending a large sum of money. I would also say that of the four most common building materials glass is the easiest to screw up.