Amel vs HR

[Evastaffan]

We are boat shopping, but in no hurry. Still learning about differences, and trying to identify what we want.
Have looked at several HR46, and being Swedish we know the the boat type. Yesterday we went to see an Amel Super Maramu to see something quite different. We liked some things very much - accesibility to everything, storage, cockpit, stern deck, steering position.
Our plan is to live aboard and go places we find interesting, cold as well as tropical. This is where we are concerned about an Amel. We feel it is more of a tropical climate boat (no insulation or "proper" heating), and a down wind sailer (long passages).
A Hallberg Rassy then seems more like an allround boat then, but lacking some of the pro's we found interesting on the Amel.
I know there is no perfect boat, and everyones view is different.
I would like to hear your views on this.

[stevensuf]

One thing you have hit upon is Amels in general do not like to go towards the wind, HR's are not noted for high pointing either, but will certainly outdo most Amels.

The foam core in the HR's hull will certainly reduce heating costs in cold climates.

If you are going to spend a lot of time out of the trade winds and heading north, then the HR would certainly be a better bet.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Having looked at HR's up to 53 Feet... we chose an Amel and are performing an intensive refit. The 4 water tight zones are a big safety factor. There is more storage in a Super Maramu.

Amel is a bargain compared to HR, they are also better at downwind cruising due to the optimized rig. Getting Eberspacker or Webasto heating is simple as you can use the existing AirCon distribution system.

It is doubtful you'll find exactly what you want; you will have to make changes to fit your plans and lifestyle. Unless you get a "custom" boat built.

GL in your search

[Evastaffan]

Thanks for your input!

Would be great to hear from Amel owners how Amel feels in colder climates and how they perform in other winds than downwind.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Well... they do not point very high. About 50 degrees is all I expect. On the other hand tacking is a cinch: as the mizzen is set quite loose upwind, you only pull on the mizzen sheet, slight amount of rudder and she'll tack beautifully. Ease the mizzen sheet once on the other tack. They sail well on reaches and downwind, especially after you set the ballooner. This is quite unique as you get 2 equal sized sails pulling you forward. Surprizing how little "ass sashay" motion is left even with large seas aft.

To reduce sail area, just furl. The sails roll up together on the forestay.

Prudence dictates that I reduce size at night or remove the ballooner.

Works a treat.

[carlylelk]

I've spent some time on an Amel Super Maramu, and you would be mistaken if you believed they were slow upwind. Keep in mind this is not a racing boat, it's a cruising boat with lots of storage and tankage. You will carry about 400 gallons combined in the fuel and water tanks. The boat weighs in at 31,500 pounds empty and 36,000 pounds fully loaded. At the empty weight it will do just fine upwind, at the full load weight it will be a bit slower, but it's not a racing boat. It has a great setup for downwind, easily managed with a lot of sail area. Upwind at 55 degrees it will do half the apparent wind speed in relatively calm seas (1 to to foot waves). I can't say if it's faster than an HR. It is certainly a very well built boat, with a lot more standard features than the HR at a lower cost. The engine room alone, for me, puts this boat head and shoulders above the HR. The above deck storage is also a big plus, no need to leave the liferaft and dinghy motor above decks where they are easy targets for thieves.

The HR is also a fine boat. I chose the Amel.

[Eleuthera 2014]

I wish to add to Carlylek's post...

The genoa is 140% and the ballooner is also 140%. If you wish to bring the ballooner down, position on starboard tack, let the ballooner sheet fly and both sails are now one inside the other. Release the ballooner halyard and bring down the ballooner inside the genoa.

I also have a large spinnaker which will be flown using the Amel poles when sailing in light air to the Marquesas.:big grin: Will come down at night.

BASTA.. HR, Contest and Oysters are prettier but are NOT as well adapted to long distance cruising or to long term life onboard.


CARLYLEK: you have PM.

[Evastaffan]

Obviously we are not looking for a fast boat, but yes the "best one" for us.

And sailing in colder climates?

[Eleuthera 2014]

If I was in NL, I'd look at this one.

Simple reason? It is well upgraded and could be viewed easily.

GL

1989 AMEL Super Maramu Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Evastaffan]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

If I was in NL, I'd look at this one.

Simple reason? It is well upgraded and could be viewed easily.

GL

1989 AMEL Super Maramu Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yup, we went to have a look last weekend, that is why these questions are popping up!

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by Evastaffan

Yup, we went to have a look last weekend, that is why these questions are popping up!

There is another very well upgraded one in the med. I'll see if I can find it!

GL with your search. Amel is likely to be your choice unless you are less dependent on a budget than I was. They are good value for money.

[carlylelk]

Originally Posted by Evastaffan

Obviously we are not looking for a fast boat, but yes the "best one" for us.

And sailing in colder climates?

I don't know whether the tiny bit of insulation in the HR means anything. Not criticizing the HR, but if you compare to house insulation it probably has only an R of 1 compared to your roof insulation with an R value of 30 or more.

The better decision is to sail where the average temperature is greater than your age! No problems with condensation then.

Another thought...steel and aluminum boats frequently have 1.5 to 3 inches of sprayed on insulation inside the hull. Much better than a fiberglass boat. Look out for corrosion though!

Duane

[Eleuthera 2014]

EMEK MARÄ°N

I saw this one last fall. It now has a brand new engine with less than 20 hours. Owned by a ship captain apparently.

GL

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by Evastaffan

Yup, we went to have a look last weekend, that is why these questions are popping up!

You have PM.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

I wish to add to Carlylek's post...

The genoa is 140% and the ballooner is also 140%. If you wish to bring the ballooner down, position on starboard tack, let the ballooner sheet fly and both sails are now one inside the other. Release the ballooner halyard and bring down the ballooner inside the genoa.

I also have a large spinnaker which will be flown using the Amel poles when sailing in light air to the Marquesas.:big grin: Will come down at night.

BASTA.. HR, Contest and Oysters are prettier but are NOT as well adapted to long distance cruising or to long term life onboard.

All of these boats are great for long distance cruising -- all in their own way.

The Amel is a bit of an ugly duckling, and much less spacious for its size, and has a lot of very eccentric features, but is a boat designed with a single minded passion for practical, long-distance cruising. Their owners are fanatical (as you have seen!). Great value for the money, too, especially considering that all of them are fully equipped.

HR is also a great long distance cruising boat, much more beautiful inside and out, probably faster (but not the older Enderlein designed ones), more spacious, more elegant. More expensive. Lacking some specific long distance features of Amels, and possibly requiring additional equipment, but with some lovely details for higher latitudes like the fixed windshield and sheltering hard dodger.

Concerning "fast" -- Amels, on paper, would not seem to be all that fast, but they achieve great passage speeds -- why? Because they are set up to be sailed easily by a short-handed crew; the hull is relatively narrow and easily driven; the low ketch rig is low stress and easy to keep sail up. As we've seen recently they are surprisingly light. Theoretically faster boats might not be faster on an ocean crossing, as the crew will simply not feel like pressing the boat for days or weeks on end. This is especially true of modern "wedgie" designs. The ketch, on paper, is expensive and much less aerodynamically efficient, but in practice it's great for crossing oceans short-handed.

Besides HR's (German Frers), worth looking at Contests (various designers), Oysters (Rob Humphrys), Discoverys (Ron Holland), Hylas (again German Frers), and English Moodys (Bill Dixon). Each with its own pluses and minuses. Any one of these, or an Amel, would be a great choice. I like all of them: Oyster are simply gorgeous and have the most wonderful spatial arrangements, with their wonderful opening forward-facing salon windows; Contests gorgeously finished and sail like a bat out of hell; Hylas comfortable and solid; Discovery with the wonderful inside helm station/raised nav table -- it would be hard to choose.