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Old 18-12-2013, 07:45   #16
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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Hilarious, considering that modern day Scandinavia is loaded with and led by people who I'm quite sure you'd call "sobbing liberals". Do you deny the heritage of all of them? Pretty sure that's all he was getting at, that European Scandinavians came to a more enlightened form of government faster than many other nations (such as the US), and that perhaps if they had colonized here the same might have occurred here? Seems like a no brainer to me, regardless of what Egil Skallagrimsson would have thought.....

I would compare the similarity of modern day Scandinavians to their Viking ancestors as I would compare modern day Italians to the Roman Empire under Caesar. By the way, loved your video.
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Old 18-12-2013, 10:35   #17
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

Apparently, Sven and Goboatingnow, experts in the Viking Age and Medieval History, have never read the greatest collection of Viking Literary/Historical masterpieces called the "Sagas"- which paint an accurate historical account of Viking Life. Although trade was a function of Viking expeditions, it was only used as an option when, due to overwhelming superiority of their opponents, violence and mayhem could not be used. The great changes in the balance of power in Scandinavia from the 9th to the 13th Centuries were a direct result of the incredible wealth gained by Viking chieftains through robbing, pillaging, plundering and extortion achieved during their forays into the world. The Danegeld paid as tribute to the Vikings was a common occurrence as payment to prevent their cities and monsasteries from being burned, pillaged and destroyed. London and Paris were saved from the Vikings wrath by this very payment. Also, it is quite apparent that the above luminaries have never read the Landnamabok- the history of Viking Iceland in in 9th and 10th Centuries which records the lineages and History of the Icelanders during the Viking Age. Nor have they read the works of worldwide historians like Ingstad, Jones, Wallace, Hall, Stinne and Severin who have devoted their lives to this subject and represent the facts as I have presented them to the reader.The facts speak for themselves and it is not my intent to educate the unwashed in the History of the Viking Age but rather to prod those with more open and inquisitive minds to further reading on this fascinating period of history. Unfortunately, once again, the politically correct among us with limited or non-existent historical knowledge wish to rewrite world history to coincide with their own distorted and politically correct world views and to derail a serious subject offered to serious readers with misinformation, innuendo and personal invective. The subject at hand informs the reader of a second possible Viking site in Newfoundland and was never intended as a discussion of the Viking Age or a descension into the Politics of the politically correct. This tactic is becoming quite frequent among some of our contributors and is intended to degrade a serious subject into something vulgar, unscholarly and ripe with personal invective. Those who resort to these tactics are not interested in the topic at hand, but rather in the off-railing of a serious subject relating to the history of sailing and exploration for their own personal reasons. Good luck, good sailing and to Sven and Goboatingnow, may the world and Truth always be as closed or open to you as you desire. You have the power of the tribe at your disposal.
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Old 18-12-2013, 11:23   #18
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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An examination history of the extensive presence of the Vikings in Ireland , shows them to have primarily been traders and keen to establish towns , settlements and integrate with the locals , Dublin was founded by them and there's a reason for the many blond blue eyed groups in Irish society ( as there are peculiarly Spanish looking people in the NW of Ireland !)

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Old 18-12-2013, 11:46   #19
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

Rognvald, well said!
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Old 18-12-2013, 11:50   #20
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

[QUOTE=rognvald;1417797]

Unfortunately, once again, the politically correct among us with limited or non-existent historical knowledge wish to rewrite world history to coincide with their own distorted and politically correct world views and to derail a serious subject offered to serious readers with misinformation, innuendo and personal invective. The subject at hand informs the reader of a second possible Viking site in Newfoundland and was never intended as a discussion of the Viking Age or a descension into the Politics of the politically correct.

So does this mean that Columbus didn't discover the "New World" after all?
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Old 18-12-2013, 12:20   #21
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

[QUOTE=cburger;1417865]
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So does this mean that Columbus didn't discover the "New World" after all?
It's been said that Columbus kept a secret map acquired from some Scands.
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Old 18-12-2013, 13:52   #22
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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Rowan Gavin Paton Menzies (born 14 August 1937)[1] is a British author and retired submarine lieutenant-commander. He is best known for his controversial book 1421: The Year China Discovered the World, in which he asserts that the fleets of Chinese Admiral Zheng He visited the Americas prior to European explorer Christopher Columbus in 1492, and that the same fleet circumnavigated the globe a century before the expedition of Ferdinand Magellan. Menzies' second book, 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance extended his discovery hypothesis to the European continent. In his third book, The Lost Empire of Atlantis, Menzies claims that Atlantis did exist, in the form of the Minoan Civilization, and that it maintained a global seaborne empire extending to the shores of America and India, millennia before actual contact in the Age of Discovery.
Historians have rejected Menzies' theories and assertions[2][3][4][5][6][7] and have categorised his work as pseudohistory.[8][9][10]
Farley Mowat has contended that the Vikings were the SECOND group of Europeans to come to North America.

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The Farfarers: Before the Norse (2000) is a book by Farley Mowat that sets out a theory about pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact. Mowat's thesis is that even before the Vikings, North America was discovered and settled by Europeans originating from Orkney who reached Canada after a generation-spanning migration that used Iceland and Greenland as 'stepping stones'. Mowat's ideas are controversial and have been accused of being over-speculative. The book has been published in the UK as The Alban Quest.
Others feel that the Basque were here in the meantime.

There is no doubt that Columbus traveled to Iceland for some time. And that the last contact with the Greenland Norse communities was in 1408, within the living history.

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The last written record of the Norse Greenlanders is of a marriage, in 1408, in Hvalsey church, which still stands today; although in ruins, it is the best-preserved of the Norse buildings of that period.
But the thing that got me was when reading of Magellan's voyage. In his log he says he decided to over wintered in S America so that in the spring he would be able to go through the passage. Uhh, if he was the first, how did he know there was a passage?

I'm not not striking a stance here, but it is interesting reading.
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Old 21-12-2013, 09:18   #23
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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I belief another site hasbeen excavated on Baffin Island this past summer. Can't remember if i saw it on a News cast in Norway or here in Canada.
Yes, Kalinka,
Famed Canadian archeologist Patricia Sutherland has found artifiacts identified as Norse in the Tanfield Valley of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic. She has documented stone ruins, whetstones, notched trading tally sticks, figurines of Norse figures and woven yarn identical to 14th Century Greenlandic Viking style. The site has been dated to the 14th Century and appears to be a trading post for trade between the Dorset Indians and the Vikings. However, although her findings have been wholly endorsed by the academic community worldwide, she has been fired from her job(no reason given) as Curator of Arctic Archeology at the Canadian Museum of Civilization and her husband, Robert McGhee, legendary Arctic archeologist, has been stripped of his emeritus status from the Gatineau Museum since their findings do not coincide with the Canadian government's historical narrative for this area. Once again, knowledge and truth are being sacrificed and perverted for a government's politically correct version of history much as Galileo encountered when he faced the penalty of death for contravening the Catholic Church's view of our universe. Remember, as Civilization declines . . . the Shaman becomes king. Here's as link for your interest and thanks for the comment. historum.com/.../53898-unbelievable-story-pat-sutherland-her-research.h...
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Old 21-12-2013, 09:36   #24
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

Interesting observations regarding a possible Baffin Island site. I also wonder what the Dorset people had that would be considered of such value it warranted a trading post in such a remote area, considered very remote even by today's standard.
While I grudgingly accept the L'anse Meadows site as genuine, I always found the scientific evidence to support it as fact, rather than theory, a little thin, at least from a layperson's perspective.
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Old 21-12-2013, 09:45   #25
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Friedrich Nietzsche
Nietzsche was insane in other ways, too.
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Old 21-12-2013, 10:00   #26
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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Interesting observations regarding a possible Baffin Island site. I also wonder what the Dorset people had that would be considered of such value it warranted a trading post in such a remote area, considered very remote even by today's standard.
While I grudgingly accept the L'anse Meadows site as genuine, I always found the scientific evidence to support it as fact, rather than theory, a little thin, at least from a layperson's perspective.

Shorebird,
The Vikings traded for furs and walrus ivory which were very valuable trade goods and commanded high prices in Greenland, Iceland, and Europe. The furs were of excellent quality because of the climate and the ivory was the only available in Europe until trade routes were opened to the Mediterranean and North Africa for elephant tusks. As far as the validity of L'Anse aux Meadows--it is a UNESCO World Heritage site and universally accepted by all archeologists/historians as indisputably Viking. Thanks for the input.
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Old 21-12-2013, 10:06   #27
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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Nietzsche was insane in other ways, too.

What does this have to do with the subject of a Second Viking site in Newfoundland? Your comments are provocative, rude and have nothing to do with the subject matter.
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Old 21-12-2013, 12:41   #28
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

Rognvald, I forgot about walrus ivory as a trade commodity, I can see it being highly prized by the Norse who, if memory serves, would have worked into artwork, and luxury items such as ivory combs, buttons ect. The description of the Baffin site would be far more conclusive as a Norse outpost than the L'anse aux Meadows site, (pardon the spelling.) since my understanding was that the artifacts, excluding the remnants of homes that stood at the site, were only 2 items, one a comb, the other a small carving. Site contamination by transfer from distant ship wreckage is one theory I have heard put forward as a possible alternative to actual site occupation by Norseman. I think I will read up some more on the subject, as it is entirely fascinating, and with a last name like Nelson, I may be reading about my own ancestors. It does not however, explain why I drop sails, start the diesel, and run for the nearest shore screaming like a girl the minute the weather kicks up.
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Old 21-12-2013, 15:38   #29
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

There was also pretty conclusive evidence of metalworking and nails.

Walrus ivory was extremely valuable at the time. Greenland had its own Bishop and was required to send taxes to Europe. It may well be that they were trading or hunting for ivory on Baffin Island.

Could also be that they got blown off course and had a tough time getting back. Lots of possible explanations.

As to Canadian censorship of archeology, Mowat also made a point of that. Supposedly some Canadian archeologist found remains of even earlier European travel in the area. Stone rings supposedly used as walks under skin boats, something like umiaks. He was ostracized for his ideas.
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Old 21-12-2013, 18:38   #30
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Re: Second Viking Site in Newfoundland

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Farley Mowat has contended that the Vikings were the SECOND group of Europeans to come to North America.

Others feel that the Basque were here in the meantime.

There is no doubt that Columbus traveled to Iceland for some time. And that the last contact with the Greenland Norse communities was in 1408, within the living history.

But the thing that got me was when reading of Magellan's voyage. In his log he says he decided to over wintered in S America so that in the spring he would be able to go through the passage. Uhh, if he was the first, how did he know there was a passage?

I'm not not striking a stance here, but it is interesting reading.
It is generally accepted that Americas were first colonized by people migrating across what is now Bering Strait from Siberia, about 30,000 years ago. Recently, an alternative hypothesis, proposed by Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley, is that the Americas were first colonized ~ 20,000 years ago by the Solutrean people from Spain (see Radical theory of first Americans places Stone Age Europeans in Delmarva 20,000 years ago - The Washington Post)

The Vikings and the Basques were relative newcomers and certainly not the first to "discover" America.
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