Island Visitor Killed by World's Most Isolated Tribe

[KJB]

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

Psalm 14:1-4

That says it all!

[Hardhead]

These people have lived on this island for many thousands of years. They own the island. They are successfully governing themselves. Once "modern" contact is made, they will never be the same - and it is irreversible. History has proven, time and again, these people will likely suffer greatly. Not in the least, and from only a biological standpoint, they have absolutely no immunity to "our" own well developed diseases.


They have an absolute right to their own beliefs, culture, and religion. They have never asked for "help." Can't we stay the hell away? The only real explanation for what has happened is absolute cultural arrogance. There are literally billions of truly needy people to help, with their eager consent, and they are very easy to find. God will still give one ample credit for helping those people.

[AKA-None]

Getting back to cruising... believe what you want but don’t go around telling others what to believe. If you can’t live in the customs of where you dropped the hook then move on or simply just don’t go there. So if you aren’t willing to have a bear or crocodile attempt to share their beliefs that you are a food source then stay away from where they are.

[OldManMirage]

[QUOTE=WingRyder;2767984]Websters definition is inaccurate and has been widely debated on various discussion boards...

Sorry, not trying to be rude, but that literally made me LOL.

"widely debated on various discussion boards..." Oh much like it is on this one ?
Sorry, I have to LOL again.


(QUOTE = You can be a theist and still be agnostic, as in, "I believe there's a god, but I don't know for sure. Belief is independent of knowledge and vice versa.

So if this is true, then is not "I don't believe there's a god, but I don't know for sure" also true ?

Which is essentially the point I am making - that no one can be certain. Thus you hold your position by belief. Unless you are omniscient of course. But wait - wouldn't that make you God ? Or a god ?



But senormechanico has it right. This discussion has very little to do with cruising, and probably belongs on another forum altogether. I'm not sure why I even weighed in on it, except that sometimes I can't resist stirring the pot. I hereby bow out, and leave it to those enjoy debating such things ad infinitum.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by KJB

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

Psalm 14:1-4

That says it all!

Then could you explain it to me? Because it makes no sense as far as I can tell.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

so is this thread now blaming this guy being a fool and idiot on God?

He’s the one that wrote that he did it all for the lord. The thread has labeled him a fool and idiot, but I guess he was convinced he was doing some gods bidding which he thought was a completely reasonable action. BTW IMHO he was a fool and an idiot.

[Macblaze]

To bring this back to sailing, I had watched the Delos episodes when they were in the Andamans and did wonder why the Indian authorities seemed so anal about checking in...now I know.

[gjordan]

Many posts back there was reference to this young man/idiot being well educated. it appears that he was educated at the Oral Roberts University which doesnt really educate, it indoctrinates . It doesnt teach critical thinking or logic , it teaches faith and belief. This is why I am afraid for our country when we have a Betsey DeVoss in charge of public education. There was also a reference to setting across an ocean in a boat being an act of faith somehow similar to a man walking into a shower of arrows. If there is any comparison, I dont see it. Almost no sailor ever cast off (other than war time) thinking/planning to die. Yes, there have been sailors that were so unprepared that they depended on faith and some lived and some didnt which was all about their knowledge, not their faith. This is an interesting thread. _____Grant.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by KJB

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

Psalm 14:1-4

That says it all!

The bible is full of atrocious, hateful ideas... many worse than this.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Just for Histories sake, maybe look up why the Crusades were fought, it’s in my opinion the real reason wars are fought, religion is what maybe gets the common guy to lay down his life for his country, but it’s not why wars are usually fought.

You obviously have no idea of the extent of the Vatican Treasury and from where the bulk of it was sourced.

[Dave_S]

Geeeeeeez, come and have a look at this, what's going on down on earth 82. Better get down and have a look. My book of smiteing has exploded in the last few days.

[WingRyder]

Originally Posted by OldManMirage

Sorry, not trying to be rude, but that literally made me LOL.

"widely debated on various discussion boards..." Oh much like it is on this one ?
Sorry, I have to LOL again.

Glad I can put a smile on your face.

So if this is true, then is not "I don't believe there's a god, but I don't know for sure" also true ?

Yes, I am an agnostic atheist. There are 30,000+ gods that I can't say, with absolute certainty, don't exist. However, I'm pretty confident about most of them.

Which is essentially the point I am making - that no one can be certain.

Doesn't that make you an agnostic?

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

I'd like to jump in here.
Maybe there are many people who have read this story and have not heard about Jim and Elisabeth Elliot who were Christian missionaries along with a few other families and their children to a very remote and primitive tribe of people in Ecuador in in the 50's. Jim Elliot was killed (along with 5 others) very soon after trying to make contact with this tribe in 1956. Remarkably, his wife continued her missionary work there for two years with the people that killed her husband. Some of them converted to Christianity. The violence that plagued that tribe started to change. Elisabeth later went on to write many books and became a speaker. She inspired so many and fulfilled the call of God.

There seems to be a lot of ridicule towards this man. Just like it takes a lot of bravery to set sail into the ocean, this man no doubt had a lot of bravery to face almost certain death in the pursuit of his beliefs, I'm sure he didn't come to the decision to do this lightly. Even returning after almost being killed on his first attempt, now that takes a lot of guts! You might not be a Christian yourself, but it is a wonderful thing when Christians try to reach those that do not know God. God has transformed many people's lives for the better.

No I hadn,t heard of them and I would be equally saddened by the mans death.
And his family’s loss.
I definitely don’t admire them or what they they were doing.
To some extent the times were difrent and perhaps the understanding of the impact thier actions have on the indigenous people might not have been understood the way it is accepted and understood today.

I am sorry this young man died.

After having read some of the news articles. I feel a great deal more sorry for the people on the island. They must have been terrified by his arrival. They reacted as frightened and cornered animal to defend themselves from a perceived threat.
They are probably tramatised by this.

This may end up being an even greater traumatic event for them if thier is an attempt to recover his remains.

Hopefully they are left alone and no infection was spread.

To some extent I also wonder about the grounds for leaving remote uncontacted tribal peoples alone. If they want to be left alone leave them alone. It’s thier choice not ours not even some anthropology. If they want to leave the forest and enter modern life it’s up to them.
Certainly it’s not up to some foreigner with a foreign religious zeal to change them.

[JPA Cate]

"God has transformed many people's lives for the better," was posted above.

It is an example of what the whole discussion is about. Belief vs. knowledge. There is no solution to the argument, because the positions are polar opposites and irreconcilable. To his friends and family, the interloper who thrust himself into the lives of the North Sentinelese is most likely an heroic martyr, not someone who deserves censure.

@boatman61, the young woman need not have been Catholic, in gnana yoga, a life of service to others is considered a continual meditation on Brahma.

There are many beliefs in the world, some a lot more humane in their execution than the main ones.

Cheers,

Ann

[cyan]

As a world cruiser looking at charts with no-go zones, the curiosity often causes interesting speculation. French nuclear testing? Cannibals? In this case, the last 15 or so remaining humans from an almost uncontacted ancient tribe, on an island protected by the Indian government. Fair enough.

The actions of this zealot who dodged authorities to implement his misguided death wish seems like an obvious example of what not to do on so many levels. I have to admit, it is quite surprising to see anyone expressing admiration of his conviction, or defense of any type. I find that reaction absurd. But then I also have a face palm when I read the post mortem words of this guy’s friend:
"This can make a statement to the world that this faith is worth dying for, I suppose.”
Only one thought on that.
Good Lord.