Africa from Maldives - go north or south around?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by ErikFinn

Wow, 2-10 for the South. That's what I voted also, but surprised the lead is so huge. Interesting to see how the "score" will develop.. Great idea by the OP to post a poll by the way.
But what is also interesting would be to know if the 10 southeners knew there is a serious plaque in Madagascar at the moment?

i think you will find passing through any of the commonly visited countries bordering the mozambique channel,IE madagasgar,comoro is.,mayotte,tanzania and mozambique.

that you are exponentialy far more at risk of death from malaria as a visiting yacht,indeed i have know at least 3 yachties that have died from malaria contracted in the area.

malaria carrying mosquitos are everywhere,at any time of the year,where as plague outbreaks are generally isolated to areas with poor sanitation on the land,not commonly visited by yachts.

plague outbreaks in mada also coincide with the onset of cyclone season.

if you happen to be sailing in cyclone season on the west coast,plague would be the least of your worries

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think you will find passing through any of the commonly visited countries bordering the mozambique channel,IE madagasgar,comoro is.,mayotte,tanzania and mozambique.

that you are exponentialy far more at risk of death from malaria as a visiting yacht,indeed i have know at least 3 yachties that have died from malaria contracted in the area.

malaria carrying mosquitos are everywhere,at any time of the year,where as plague outbreaks are generally isolated to areas with poor sanitation on the land,not commonly visited by yachts.

plague outbreaks in mada also coincide with the onset of cyclone season.

if you happen to be sailing in cyclone season on the west coast,plague would be the least of your worries[emoji3]

I agree Atoll, the risks heading south, including "the plague" are easy enough to work around, your decisions and actions, including boat preparation and timing very much mitigate potential risks, this is what I was trying to say in my previous post.

I don't want to turn this into a pirate gulf of Aden thread BUT when the op speaks about the red sea option, regarding the responsiblity for wife and young child I don't understand the logic! How do you compare the plague to potential piracy?

Going south I have a reasonably good chance or at least alot of imput into controlling my circumstances, going north I rely on fate or luck, I have little imput regarding a pirate being in the same vincity as as I am. I know the chances are minimal, I've spent alot of time over recent years looking at the redsea option and BUT the logical conclusion I came to is, I have more say in the outcome heading south than I do north!
Below is a link to a small yacht that crossed this year, they overheard two pirate attacks on the Vhf during their crossing this year.

http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/In...rns-march-2017

I must repeat, I wanted to go the Redsea passage, but I don't know how anyone can determine the degree of risk, I'm not someone that just "hopes" it will be OK, I need a more active approach regarding my future...... thats just me. No offence intended towards Op.

BTW, you get to sail the whole way south.

[FranklinGray]

Being ex military I guess I just feel safer dealing with hostile people than dealing with diseases. As one of the posters said, some yachties have died from malaria down there. Didn't know that was an issue. I am skipping Vanuatu due to malaria there next year, so now I am really starting to like the red sea option better. Our child is just 10 weeks old now. He will not be able to take medicine to prevent Malaria.

Yeah, I was surprised by the votes myself.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by FranklinGray

Being ex military I guess I just feel safer dealing with hostile people than dealing with diseases. As one of the posters said, some yachties have died from malaria down there. Didn't know that was an issue. I am skipping Vanuatu due to malaria there next year, so now I am really starting to like the red sea option better. Our child is just 10 weeks old now. He will not be able to take medicine to prevent Malaria.

Yeah, I was surprised by the votes myself.

you do not have to go via the mozambique channel,many yachts cross from darwin,cocos keeling,rodriges,reunion,mauritius,durban leaving around may-june

port vila is well worth a stop in vanuatu,and pretty much free from malaria.
the northern islands have malaria,but i believe it is the tertian kind,rather than the deadly drug resistant falciparum you find in madagasgar and surrounds.

dengue is also found in djibouti and eritrea,and can be quite severe in children,so not entirely risk free there either

[Paul L]

Atoll
Here's a map showing the southern Vanuatu islands having more malaria than the north. We saw very few mosquitos in Vanuatu in Sept/Oct this year. Dealt with more in Fiji.

I don't see comparing pirate/robbery comparisons to disease areas as very useful. If the Red Sea area suddenly gets a slug of new attacks, it doesn't make the disease rate any safer down south. Likewise having a plague outbreak in Madagascar has nothing to do with how safe the Red Sea is. None of us have to travel either passage, so making the decision of what route to take is independent.
We know cruisers who have shipped their boat to Turkey, sailed/motored up the Red Sea, crossed the Indian Ocean to South Africa on the northern and southern route, sailed back east across the Pacific, sold their boat in Australia There's lots of choices. At this stage I wouldn't do the Red Sea passage but that could change over the OPs two year timeline. The South Africa route would be my choice today.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Atoll
Here's a map showing the southern Vanuatu islands having more malaria than the north. We saw very few mosquitos in Vanuatu in Sept/Oct this year. Dealt with more in Fiji.

I don't see comparing pirate/robbery comparisons to disease areas as very useful. If the Red Sea area suddenly gets a slug of new attacks, it doesn't make the disease rate any safer down south. Likewise having a plague outbreak in Madagascar has nothing to do with how safe the Red Sea is. None of us have to travel either passage, so making the decision of what route to take is independent.
We know cruisers who have shipped their boat to Turkey, sailed/motored up the Red Sea, crossed the Indian Ocean to South Africa on the northern and southern route, sailed back east across the Pacific, sold their boat in Australia There's lots of choices. At this stage I wouldn't do the Red Sea passage but that could change over the OPs two year timeline. The South Africa route would be my choice today.

i have circumnavigated both ways via the cape,and via red sea,but in total on other trips i have twice sailed past the cape,safely completed 4 north bound transits of the red sea,and 1 south bound,i also lived in mayotte for a few years with frequent trips to madagasgar.

i have also overseen the shipping of a vessel via the red sea to asia , delivered and picked up and continued the delivery after shipping.

i grew up sailing the east coast of africa,and have circumnavigated the continent, visited over 26 african countries backpacking overland and by yacht.

also 3 E-W transits of the north and south pacific,4 indian ocean transits,7 atlantic,done mostly in yachts that i built,with a few deliveries ,over 100,000 logged miles.

i can't say i am an expert,and would not profess to be,but i can say if i had relied on graphs and statistics,then i probably would never have left the safety of my home port

ps have you checked the graph of violent crime rate in south africa recently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by atoll

i have circumnavigated both ways via the cape,and via red sea,but in total on other trips i have twice sailed past the cape,safely completed 4 north bound transits of the red sea,and 1 south bound,i also lived in mayotte for a few years with frequent trips to madagasgar.

i have also overseen the shipping of a vessel via the red sea to asia , delivered and picked up and continued the delivery after shipping.

i grew up sailing the east coast of africa,and have circumnavigated the continent, visited over 26 african countries backpacking overland and by yacht.

also 3 E-W transits of the north and south pacific,4 indian ocean transits,7 atlantic,done mostly in yachts that i built,with a few deliveries ,over 100,000 logged miles.

i can't say i am an expert,and would not profess to be,but i can say if i had relied on graphs and statistics,then i probably would never have left the safety of my home port

ps have you checked the graph of violent crime rate in south africa recently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

Nice resume.
The map was just pointing out the malaria in the South of Vanuatu seemed higher than where you said it was in the north.
So are you advocating for the Red Sea route now as a better route? Boats are certainly doing it this year without major incident so far.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by atoll

i have circumnavigated both ways via the cape,and via red sea,but in total on other trips i have twice sailed past the cape,safely completed 4 north bound transits of the red sea,and 1 south bound,i also lived in mayotte for a few years with frequent trips to madagasgar.

i have also overseen the shipping of a vessel via the red sea to asia , delivered and picked up and continued the delivery after shipping.

i grew up sailing the east coast of africa,and have circumnavigated the continent, visited over 26 african countries backpacking overland and by yacht.

also 3 E-W transits of the north and south pacific,4 indian ocean transits,7 atlantic,done mostly in yachts that i built,with a few deliveries ,over 100,000 logged miles.

i can't say i am an expert,and would not profess to be,but i can say if i had relied on graphs and statistics,then i probably would never have left the safety of my home port

ps have you checked the graph of violent crime rate in south africa recently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

Hi Atoll, I looked at the stats regarding viollent crime in SA. Yep not good, BUT once again you have some control, take cabs, choose the areas you go, to etc, the risks can be managed very easily.

You don't have as many choices regarding pirates, if an opportunistic pirate stumbles across you in the redsea your choices become very minimal very quickly, ex military or not, your going to have automatic weapon shoot out with your baby and wife onboard? Up until this year I would have gone the Redsea route, been mostly pirate free the last three years, activity has definitely increased this year.

Regarding diseases, world travel via sailboat exposes you to less sterile places, this is a fact, BUT you have some control over this as well, insect repellent , insect screens, carry a variety of drugs onboard, anchor further out etc, once again you have some ability to manage these problems. I've been to a variety of countries where malaria amongst other diseases live, so far dengue fever is the worst I've picked up, and to be honest it could of been avoided, I got lazy.

I understand the op's worry as a small child would be harder to manage regarding mozzies etc.

As you said if you just looked just at stats and figures you'd go nowhere. The greatest risk is trying to live a risk free life, taking no risk at alI, I look at all the risks (that I know of) and decide which risks are the most manageable and that's the way I go. There's always a bit of luck needed in life as well!

BTW I went the cocos keeling route, absolutely beautiful but blows hard and constantly.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Nice resume.
The map was just pointing out the malaria in the South of Vanuatu seemed higher than where you said it was in the north.
So are you advocating for the Red Sea route now as a better route? Boats are certainly doing it this year without major incident so far.

sorry if i seemed abrupt,i was thinking of the solomon islands to the north,rather than just vanuatu.

Areas with drug resistant Malaria: Multidrug resistant P. falciparum malaria is present in all malarious areas of the Solomon Islands. Chloroquine resistant P. vivax malaria has also been reported from this country.
https://www.iamat.org/country/solomo...s/risk/malaria

also the problem with statistics, is it relies on REPORTED information,which works great in places with high literacy,and good communications,not so much in war torn areas,and places where medical staff are seen as a tasty snack..........

traditionally,the red sea route allowes an easy 18 -24 month trade wind circumnavigation IE
boats leaving gib in october,transit panama in march,reach torres str by october,leave phuket in jan,and arrive back in the med by may- june.
and you miss all the cyclone areas,by going north and south of the equator.

where as going via the cape requires 32 months dodging cyclone/hurricane seasons,and bad weather in the s indian ocean IE
leave gib oct ,panama march, arrive aus oct,dep aus may,arrive sa oct,dep sa jan,arr carib march,dep carib april-may,arr gib june.
and requires spending time in or passing through cyclone prone areas,2-3 times depending on your route.

so realistically dodging pirates for 6-10 days,and sailing in optimal weather hardly compares risk wise to 2 cyclone seasons,and 100ft waves off the cape!

[atoll]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Atoll, I looked at the stats regarding viollent crime in SA. Yep not good, BUT once again you have some control, take cabs, choose the areas you go, to etc, the risks can be managed very easily.

You don't have as many choices regarding pirates, if an opportunistic pirate stumbles across you in the redsea your choices become very minimal very quickly, ex military or not, your going to have automatic weapon shoot out with your baby and wife onboard? Up until this year I would have gone the Redsea route, been mostly pirate free the last three years, activity has definitely increased this year.

Regarding diseases, world travel via sailboat exposes you to less sterile places, this is a fact, BUT you have some control over this as well, insect repellent , insect screens, carry a variety of drugs onboard, anchor further out etc, once again you have some ability to manage these problems. I've been to a variety of countries where malaria amongst other diseases live, so far dengue fever is the worst I've picked up, and to be honest it could of been avoided, I got lazy.

I understand the op's worry as a small child would be harder to manage regarding mozzies etc.

As you said if you just looked just at stats and figures you'd go nowhere. The greatest risk is trying to live a risk free life, taking no risk at alI, I look at all the risks (that I know of) and decide which risks are the most manageable and that's the way I go. There's always a bit of luck needed in life as well!

BTW I went the cocos keeling route, absolutely beautiful but blows hard and constantly.

i rebuilt all the rain water collection tanks for the australian government on direction island back in 96 on cocos,definitly a windy place,and surprisingly beaurocratic

see my previous post re the other routes.

i,m currently following the med- red sea rally which might be of interest to those interested in a red sea transit.
https://www.facebook.com/medasiasail...ToCyEl34HLFWuE

[daletournier]

Not deliberately being argumentative but I figure arguing both sides of "which way do I go" is possibly helpful.

You sail the Indian ocean in the right season just as you do the Pacific, it's no biggie, may to November. Most do it in the one season, I decided to stop and take my time, I also sailed along way this year gold Coast Australia, if I had of still been or left from Thailand I possibly would of continued through to cape town this year as it's a shorter route than the one I took. There's big legs in between so the actual passage making gets done in a relatively short time.

Most do the Rodriguez Mauritius route from cocos or Thailand /Langkawi and more commonly (these days) rounding north Madagascar.

It can be quite a rough trip from Cocos to Rodriguez, the easier route is Chagos Seychelles (which I chose) plus you get the remoteness of Chagos.

Your right regarding only needing to dodge pirates for 6-10 days BUT you don't really dodge pirates!! If they happen to stumble across you then there's no dodging.

Yep Cocos is bureaucratic, it's Australian.. Lol. It's alls outrageously expensive! It's very simple to check in, they come to the boat from home island. If it's to windy they won't come for a few days but they give you the OK to go ashore on direction in the meantime . Good yachtie socialising while waiting for a window. It's $60aud /week mooring fee, for what I do not know.

If you choose Chagos then as Atoll mentioned you need to apply to BIOT for a permit, Zoe is very fast and efficient. I think it's approximately $100 aud/week for the permit, best to check, can't remember if exactly.

Seychelles is very clean, friendly and Stunningly beautiful! Bureaucracy is a live and well here but easy enough. It's expensive and there's a petty theft issue but personal safety isn't a issue. You and boat can stay upto 12 mths, easy sailing.

[Paul L]

The Seychelles to Madagascar can be tough. Here's a summary from friends who did it in 2015
https://sageonsail.com/2015/09/15/se...to-madagascar/

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The Seychelles to Madagascar can be tough. Here's a summary from friends who did it in 2015
https://sageonsail.com/2015/09/15/se...to-madagascar/

It can depending on the time of year.
I'll be leaving early May hopefully prior to trade's being fully established, there's also places to stop if need be on the way, not an option between cocos and Rodriguez. Also it's a 5-7 day passage, easier to get a weather window for that time frame.

I'll be heading to Comoros for a better angle, then find a easy day (I hope) hop across to Mayotte then Madagascar.

I knew several that did the Nosy be passage this year, two were on lagoons (38 & 40) they had reasonable trips. My friends that did the Comoros route had a fast and easier sail due to angle and this was in June.

Choosing the route I did this year (gold Coast to Seychelles) we only experienced one night of bad Weather.

The whole trip was good sailing, four days of very light on the way to Chagos, which was a bummer BUT give me "boredom over terror " any day, I'm OK with that.

[ski69sail]

Hi There

I read a book.. Sailing with Muhammad..... it was a great read and covers the area in good detail...Red Sea