Yachting world does investigation keel failures

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by hasse_A

I say Long Keel. I would not do transoceanic sailing in anything else. Way to often you hear about trouble with keels and rudders on fin keeled boats.

HA HA HA

I say any well designed and well built keel - but not a fin keel that got hit hard.

I would sail in anything from a Pogo to an Allegro. NOT a Pogo that was used for bottom survey. Much as Allegros could get away with such surveys to some extent!

b.

[hasse_A]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If you want to cruise oceans FAST, you do want a fine keel. NOT one that got hit against anything hard at any point though.
b.

A fresh example. 2 boats left Cap Verde together in the middle of December and had a very rough downwind passage to the Caribbean. One Bavaria 32 Cruiser (fin keeled) and our friends in their OE32 (long keeled) almost exactly the shape of the picture above. Both were 32 feet in length. Our friends in the long keeled OE32 arrived 5 days ahead of the Bavaria. They both had shorthanded crews (married couples). The OE32 was much more forgiving in the rough weather and needed much less attention and could much easier be run efficient. If the Bavaria would be handled by a racing crew, maybe it would have kept pace withe the OE32 but I doubt it. It is very tiresome keeping that boat at maximum speed in high seas and gale like conditions for weeks risking broaches all the time, something our friends didn't have to worry about.

[barnakiel]

The problem with Chiki was not that a long keel boat got somewhere before Chiki did. The problem is that Chiki did not make it.

Fin keel boats can be as good and better offshore boats as long keel boats. But some of them apparently cannot take hitting objects, or ground, with their keels.

Identify the bad apples, then steer off in your choices for offshore work. Or get them as they are, and accept the extra risk.

I would be as happy as anything crossing an ocean in any sound, well designed, well built fin keel boat.

b.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I think they are answering the shareholder demands and the guy at the top who wants his bonus even more so.

More like answering the demands of 'Mud Folks' who want floating condiminiums with all the goodies they have at home.. shoot.. even know folk with jacuzzi's on their boats..
WTF.. to keep things affordable summats gotta give..

[hasse_A]

An even fresher example. Our friends in the OE32 Missy I mentioned in an earlier post left the Caribbean bound for the Azores and were hit by a storm some 400 nm SW of the Azores. They were knocked down 8 times and did a number of rotations. By then they issued a distress call but after they calmed them self down and realized they and the boat were ok they canceled the need for assistance. They are now approaching the Canary Island and can be seen om MarineTraffic.
Long keel and single spreader masthead riggings are obviously very robust.
It's been written about this here on CF : http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-145794-8.html
Go to post #111 and below.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by hasse_A

A fresh example. 2 boats left Cap Verde together in the middle of December and had a very rough downwind passage to the Caribbean. One Bavaria 32 Cruiser (fin keeled) and our friends in their OE32 (long keeled) almost exactly the shape of the picture above. Both were 32 feet in length. Our friends in the long keeled OE32 arrived 5 days ahead of the Bavaria. They both had shorthanded crews (married couples). The OE32 was much more forgiving in the rough weather and needed much less attention and could much easier be run efficient. If the Bavaria would be handled by a racing crew, maybe it would have kept pace withe the OE32 but I doubt it. It is very tiresome keeping that boat at maximum speed in high seas and gale like conditions for weeks risking broaches all the time, something our friends didn't have to worry about.

For having meaningful speed results regarding comparing sailboats you need to have several of each type to be able to have statistically results. Probably in what concerns that comparison that only means that your friends are better sailors.

If small full keel boats were faster solo or with a duo crew, due to easiness or whatever, on an oceanic passage than there would be lots of them on the Transquadra, a transact solo race for amateurs with more than 40 years of age. Lot's of boats there (about 100 on each race) and I don't remember of a single full keel doing it.

Popular boats are boats even lighter than the Bavaria 42 and one that has won several times is the JPK 10.10, a fast cruiser racer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ31lFOL5vA

Not as fragile as some want to make us believe: Here you have another cruiser racer that gets good results, a A31 colliding (on the Transquadra) with a whale at speed and not being damaged with it. I hope the whale got away also, just as scared as the guy on the boat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqK8_iuoZcU

[barnakiel]

Re OE32 boat we may just sit and wait. Better not make any far fetched projections.

If a boat gets rolled 'several times' then there is normally heaps of damage FIRST AND FOREMOST to the people in the boat.

Than again it it does not speak very highly of a design if you get rolled 360 many times in a row. Think of that pink girl: sailing the SO, how many 360 did she have?

And neither long keel nor topmast rig nor something makes a design safer or less safe. Mind OE32 were (many/mostly) hand picked and owner finished. If one owner went for a mast somewhat stronger than what we see everyday on a Lavaria then it speaks very well of common sense of this particular owner.

I think the credit is these sailors pressed the button then looked around, assessed the damage and their ability, and kept on going. A virtue, in my book.

b.