Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Probably similar to MLS on houses in the US. It is designed to protect their profession/ livelihood.

It would be nice to be able to see comps..

Exactly. Then came Zillow.com and realtor.com These have taken the power away from the broker. But guess what. Brokers didn't suffer. It has allowed buyers and sellers to operate in a more rational way. If your a buyer you can go online and see everything for sale in the area your interested in. And you can see the sales data for that home as well as other sales in the area. This has broken the monopoly of the MLS and the control brokers tried to exert on the market.

If the same approach took place in the boating industry you would find that people would still be used for negotiations etc and sellers will still use brokers because many don't want to deal directly with buyers. But it will allow for a much better market place. The more information easily accessible and available makes for an easier decision making for buyers and a more realistic sales pricing for sellers. A restricted information market place causes serious distortions that work against the efficient working of the market. Which means less sales for everybody.

IMHO

[GoingWalkabout]

I forgot to add that it is usual practise with Realtors to give a prospective buyers a list of comps printed out from the MLS.
This was even before Zillow.com came on the scene.

How many people would be buying a property based on the trustworthiness of a "friendly" broker and a real estate agents list of asking prices. I suppose it happens for idiot buyers but any buyer with a semblance of intelligence would require a comparable sales list.

What I don't get is that boat brokers don't get how pathetic the current system is. They think it's OK to manipulate the sold database figures and they do so without sanction. If a realtor did that go the MLS they would be cut off instantly and would suffer other serious legal consequences.

I'm not going to put my head in the sand and accept a bad situation.

I'm in the market to make a purchase. It is in my interests of course that I see that I'm not cheated. But I also know that a bad selling set up for boats will affect me as well when I come to sell in the future. I will repeat. A less than open transparent market hurts sales. Keeps otherwise buyers out of the market and causes a slowing and clogging up of boats for sale as sellers advertise for totally unrealistic prices. IMHO

[valhalla360]

All this talk about manipulating recorded prices is fun but your average broker isn't thinking that long term.

He cares about his next sale. He wants the sale to go thru and to go thru at the current price.

The buyer only really cares about the surveyors valuation based on how he plans to use it. It's pretty rare to pay for a survey purely out of curiosity. Giving the surveyor all the information allows him to better tailor the results to your needs.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by boatbrain

So, after reading most of the thread, is there a place one can directly look up reported sales prices of boats or not? I am still not clear.

I understand brokers on Yachtworld report to Yachtworld in some way but do I need a broker to sign on and show those reports to me?

Yes. Only brokers who pay for it have access.

[IntoMyHealth]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

Yes. Only brokers who pay for it have access.

That's true, but when we were buying our boat our broker was more than happy to share the data at soldboats.com. I think we even got a 30 day trial access to the site.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[er9]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

You forgot the most important. What carbon footprint does it have during manufacture. And I can't believe you left out the type of anchor

you know the curved one with a hook...i think you toss it on any sea wall or breakwater when you want to stop...pretty sure thats how they work. just fling it or something...

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The buyer only really cares about the surveyors valuation based on how he plans to use it. It's pretty rare to pay for a survey purely out of curiosity. Giving the surveyor all the information allows him to better tailor the results to your needs.

Any surveyor who "tailors" anything other than the facts and well supported opinion should be drummed out of the business.

When called to survey a boat, one of the first things I say to a potential client is "Please do not tell me what you paid for the boat". I have to come up with an actual cash market value and do not want to be influenced or appear to be influenced by anyone's opinion but my own.

As to soldboats.com it is available to anyone who pays for the subscription not just brokers. I and many of my fellow SAMS surveyors have subscriptions to soldboats. and I frequently give out this information to people even before they put in an offer. In well over 3,000 surveys I have never seen a falsified price in soldboats ..... not saying it does not happen, just that I've never seen it. I have seen some curious prices but have found out after some digging that they were invariably complicated by trade-in deals or some other issue that complicated the matter.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Any surveyor who "tailors" anything other than the facts and well supported opinion should be drummed out of the business.

.

If there was one CORRECT answer, I would agree with you.

The problem is survey values are highly subjective and you can easily using FACTS and WELL SUPPORTED OPINION vary the valuation by 10-20%.

Now if they change the value by 80% that will be problematic but 10-20% is pretty easy to justify.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If there was one CORRECT answer, I would agree with you.

The problem is survey values are highly subjective and you can easily using FACTS and WELL SUPPORTED OPINION vary the valuation by 10-20%.

Now if they change the value by 80% that will be problematic but 10-20% is pretty easy to justify.

Coming up with a "reasonable", "supportable" value is not easy. I have a few thoughts about this issue on my website .... How Much Is She Worth ?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Coming up with a "reasonable", "supportable" value is not easy. I have a few thoughts about this issue on my website .... How Much Is She Worth ?

Thanks for the link to your website. A nice read.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Thanks for the link to your website. A nice read.

Me too what he said

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Coming up with a "reasonable", "supportable" value is not easy. I have a few thoughts about this issue on my website .... How Much Is She Worth ?

Thanks for sharing. Informative. Thanks.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Coming up with a "reasonable", "supportable" value is not easy. I have a few thoughts about this issue on my website .... How Much Is She Worth ?

Exactly. Because it's not easy and there is a lot of subjectivity, if you give the boat to 10 different surveyors, they will come up with 10 different values all of which may be "reasonable" and "supportable".

Again, you have to look at the purpose of the survey. If I'm happy the price (if I'm no happy, I shouldn't have put the offer in) and I just need an agreed value for insurance purposes, I want the surveyor to come back with the highest "reasonable" and "supportable" value they can.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Again, you have to look at the purpose of the survey. If I'm happy the price (if I'm no happy, I shouldn't have put the offer in) and I just need an agreed value for insurance purposes, I want the surveyor to come back with the highest "reasonable" and "supportable" value they can.

I can't only speak for other surveyors but I disagree. I refuse to be influenced by what "you" want and will provide a value that I am comfortable with not the highest value that you want.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I can't only speak for other surveyors but I disagree. I refuse to be influenced by what "you" want and will provide a value that I am comfortable with not the highest value that you want.

You are misinterpretting.

I didn't say the "highest value that I want".

The intent is to provide the highest value that the surveyor would be comfortable with. (assuming my goal is the highest out of a reasonable range).

I understand your concern. I deal with it in my work all the time. I will refuse to fabricate or falsify information but I will use accurate and reasonable information to the best advantage of my clients. To do otherwise would be a dis-service to them. As the buyer, I am the client. If you don't meet my needs to the best of your ability, you have failed.