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Old 22-09-2011, 13:47   #76
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Yeah...I'm that stupid.....

What I'm saying is that a boat owner should NEVER expect friends or guests to pay...there should be NO undestanding...

As I stated in my other post...understood or paid crew may be a different story...but even that's thin...
NO, paid crew, hired crew, people sitting on the dock, the BOAT SHOULD HAVE INSURANCE. Paid crew is paying for that insurance, as are passengers. Hired crew is just hired help, would you pay for repairs to your bosses business if a tree fell on the building? There should be no understanding, insurance is the cost of doing business. If the captian does not want to use the insurance for what ever reason that is his business. If it is not a charter then the people on board are guests, since they are guests they deserve to be treated as such and should not be expected to pay for damages. If they want to that is up to them.
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Old 22-09-2011, 14:01   #77
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

"This is Capt. Stubing, welcome to "The Love Boat"; I hope you all have a wonderful time. Oh, by the way, on the way out of port we ran over a rock and put a little ding in the side. It will cost $100,000 to repair so your portion will be added to your bill. Don't worry, it won't be that much since the crew has graciously said they will chip in."

Take it to the absurd to see the fallacy of the people that think the guests/crew on board should pay.
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Old 22-09-2011, 14:27   #78
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
...but you as the owner can be held liable for the actions of ANY driver...including someone who stole your car...
Very misleading and basically wrong I think:
  • If another is driving your car with your permission, you might have shared liablity, but driver is not off the hook and remains at least partially liable.
  • If someone stole your car you genearlly will not be held liable (unless maybe you left your keys in the car, had bad brakes, or other special case). No permission was given.
As a more general case, it is the person who did the deed (i.e., the driver) that is liable for damages caused by negligent actions. The fact that owner's insurance usually covers this other party is a side matter.

Boats are different. The person driving (helmsman) is not necessarily the person in command (skipper). Person in command is responsible. Helmsman might share responsibility however if grossly negligent.
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Old 22-09-2011, 14:33   #79
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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I guess they should have moved that deer crossing sign in a better lighted place down the road so the deer would not be hit.

Nooooo!!!

They should have taught the deer to read and then put up a sign instructing the deer to not cross the road.
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Old 22-09-2011, 14:33   #80
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Repairs are 100% down to the Owner (who in this case just happens to be the Skipper). The fact that he does not want to claim on his insurance is his problem, don't make it yours.

My suggestions:-

a) tell him to f#ck off
b) never sail with him again
c) drop him of your Xmas card list

AND

d) delete him as a Facebook freind
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Old 22-09-2011, 18:38   #81
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Very misleading and basically wrong I think:
  • If another is driving your car with your permission, you might have shared liablity, but driver is not off the hook and remains at least partially liable.
  • If someone stole your car you genearlly will not be held liable (unless maybe you left your keys in the car, had bad brakes, or other special case). No permission was given.
As a more general case, it is the person who did the deed (i.e., the driver) that is liable for damages caused by negligent actions. The fact that owner's insurance usually covers this other party is a side matter.

Boats are different. The person driving (helmsman) is not necessarily the person in command (skipper). Person in command is responsible. Helmsman might share responsibility however if grossly negligent.
Funny...sounds like you are saying the same thing...
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Old 22-09-2011, 19:17   #82
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Repairs are 100% down to the Owner (who in this case just happens to be the Skipper). The fact that he does not want to claim on his insurance is his problem, don't make it yours.

My suggestions:-

a) tell him to f#ck off
b) never sail with him again
c) drop him of your Xmas card list

AND

d) delete him as a Facebook freind

I agree with you. If they didn't have that agreement going in, he's a truly poor sport. Some people should be put off at the nearest next stop. Unfortunately that's hard to do when it's the boat owner but his crew could leave him.
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Old 22-09-2011, 19:19   #83
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Repairs are 100% down to the Owner (who in this case just happens to be the Skipper). The fact that he does not want to claim on his insurance is his problem, don't make it yours.

My suggestions:-

a) tell him to f#ck off
b) never sail with him again
c) drop him of your Xmas card list

AND

d) delete him as a Facebook freind
Jeeze really! Un-friending somebody is pretty extreme!
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Old 22-09-2011, 19:57   #84
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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Jeeze really! Un-friending somebody is pretty extreme!
My boating FRIENDS would NEVER expect me to pay...so for me...if asked ...I wouldn't be un-friending anyone...just another cheap jerk....
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Old 22-09-2011, 20:17   #85
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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A few folks were invited to go sailing on an acquaintances boat for a few days this past summer. While underway we ran into a log and did several thousand dollars in damages to the boat.

The skipper/owner was on deck (in the cockpit)when this occurred but not at the helm. Another person was at the helm. The skipper, the helmsman and the others in the cockpit were all engaged in the same activity/conversation when the log was hit. Note that the skipper saw the log just before the collision. My question to the forum is who do you think should pay for the damages. The owner does not want to involve the insurance company.

The question of who pays was never discussed before we left the dock and there are a number of differing views on who should pay the damages. Should the skipper take full responsibility or should the person who was at the helm. Should the costs be shared among everyone who was on board? Is there some unwritten boating rule that should be followed in situations such as this.

I am curious hear what other think about this situation. The big take away for me from this accident was that I will not step foot on anyone else's boat before the question of "who pays in the case of an accident" has been asked and answered.

Thanks

M
Hmm... Well, what a crummy reason for a first post...

Welcome to C.F.

We (I hope I speak for everyone) WILL NOT CHARGE you for sharing your opinion.
We probably shall share ours with your as well.

I do hope that this is not your first introduction to boating, and that you have a FAR more pleasurable experiences in the future...

PS. Unfortunately (speaking as owner and captain) the owner/captain must pay... ;(
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Old 22-09-2011, 20:19   #86
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Repairs are 100% down to the Owner (who in this case just happens to be the Skipper). The fact that he does not want to claim on his insurance is his problem, don't make it yours.

My suggestions:-

a) tell him to f#ck off
b) never sail with him again
c) drop him of your Xmas card list

AND

d) delete him as a Facebook freind
Actually, no need to unfriend... just send him a VIP invite to fiendbook.com.

He deserves the full package....
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Old 23-09-2011, 08:19   #87
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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I have let people use my boat, and I have let people use my car. However, we have always had the agreement...
Key difference. You had an agreement. If there had been nothing said (as is CLEARLY the case in this thread), then you could not just assume that they would pay. Or maybe you could assume, but I can assure you that they would not (in the U.S. at least) be legally liable.
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Old 23-09-2011, 08:24   #88
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

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Key difference. You had an agreement. If there had been nothing said, then you could not just assume that they would pay. Or maybe you could assume, but I can assure you that they would not (in the U.S. at least) be legally liable.

EXACTLY.
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Old 23-09-2011, 09:38   #89
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

I think the concept of a guest being liable in any way is ridiculous.

To make it more quanderable, the question can be magnified if you assume that there was a death when the log was hit AND the helmsman (a multi millionaire) just took his 5th shot of 1800. Then a John Edwards type might come out to play and have a sympathetic jury.

What do you think?
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Old 23-09-2011, 10:44   #90
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Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Hi all

Another update for you in this on going saga. The owner of the boat has engaged a lawyer to come after myself and the other crew member in an effort to force each of us to pay for 1/3 the costs of the repairs. It's not a huge amount of money but now I am just pissed off. What a dick this guy is turning out to be.

Are there any maritime lawyers out there who don't like a..holes and want to give me some free advice? Heck you don't even have to be a lawyer. -. This is turning out to be quite a joke.

FYI the accident happened in Canadian waters.

M
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