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Old 19-05-2014, 09:33   #91
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

[QUOTE=CarlF;1544679]Rescues are risky to the rescuers. The death of the CG rescue swimmer during the "Perfect Storm" is an example.

A boat that loses it's keel rolls instantly. There would be no time to get a liferaft or survival suits out. Most likely the liferaft was in the cabin. If not, perhaps tied behind the mast. It would have been inaccessible in either place once the boat rolled in large waves. They would not have pre-deployed the life raft and towed it while trying to get to the Azores as they had radioed).


This thread from 2012
Bavaria lost keel again

and
Danish Sailors Rescued 650 Miles NE of Bermuda — Noonsite

would suggest that it is indeed possible to be rescued from a remote location after a keel malfunction.
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:37   #92
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

PLB battery = 24hrs
EPIRB battery = 48hrs

SPOT battery = weeks
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:42   #93
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

One thing disturbs me.. on all the pic's I've managed to find I cannot find one showing the liferaft secured on deck.. so was it the valise type and stored below.. if they brought it on deck a good chance it could have floated free on capsize and been inflated by someone in the water..
If the boxed type likely it would have stayed below as they slide all over the place and are harder to lash down.. in which case.. uhoh..
Just idle speculation.. know many who stash the liferaft below decks or in a locker to keep it outa the way..
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:45   #94
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
One thing disturbs me.. on all the pic's I've managed to find I cannot find one showing the liferaft secured on deck.. so was it the valise type and stored below.. if they brought it on deck a good chance it could have floated free on capsize and been inflated by someone in the water..
If the boxed type likely it would have stayed below as they slide all over the place and are harder to lash down.. in which case.. uhoh..
Just idle speculation.. know many who stash the liferaft below decks or in a locker to keep it outa the way..
These are questions that the company can answer..... but might not just yet.
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:48   #95
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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One thing disturbs me.. on all the pic's I've managed to find I cannot find one showing the liferaft secured on deck..
Or it could have failed any hydrostatic release and still be there
Or it could have simply been washed away, out of reach and out of mind.
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:54   #96
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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The life raft is in a cupboard by the stern, isnt it?

Photo of another First 40.7
Thanks Mark.. not familiar with the First... should be easy-ish to get out inverted then as that looks like the area under the lift seat and access to the swim platform.. if conditions permitted that is..
Arrrrgggghhhhh... cancel that.. just seen her in film on the TV.. no rear access as the backstay attaches where on an Oceanis has an access door.. buga
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:55   #97
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

This youtube link:


Gives a video and story (in French some of it) but the important part is that it involves a lost keel. From the time when the keel was lost to when it capsized was just over 14 hours.
The crew were able to deploy the life raft and were rescued.
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Old 19-05-2014, 09:58   #98
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Gives a video and story (in French some of it) but the important part is that it involves a lost keel. From the time when the keel was lost to when it capsized was just over 14 hours.
The crew were able to deploy the life raft and were rescued.
Liferaft is kept in a garage in the back transom area. Go turtle, open hatch in back and get raft. Maybe a good idea for all boats?
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:04   #99
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Headline this morning

Search called off for 4 Britons on 40-foot yacht missing in mid-Atlantic
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:06   #100
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

another story - in English: Capsize leaves Javier Sanso drifting in liferaft awaiting rescue in Vendée Globe - Sailing - More Sports - The Independent

Bottom line: they should not have stopped the search.
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:12   #101
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Thanks Mark.. not familiar with the First... should be easy-ish to get out inverted then as that looks like the area under the lift seat and access to the swim platform.. if conditions permitted that is..



Updated.....:banghea d:

Arrrrgggghhhhh... cancel that.. just seen her in film on the TV.. no rear access as the backstay attaches where on an Oceanis has an access door.. buga
bugabugabuga
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:29   #102
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

How survivable are liferafts in foul weather?

Is it reasonable to assume that, if weather conditions are bad enough, survival aboard a liferaft would be improbable, resulting in the search being called off?
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:38   #103
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

The boat that lost its keel in the previous post had large water ballast tanks that were carefully managed to keep it from capsizing. It's also not clear to me whether the 14 hours to capsize was from the collision with the object or from the loss of the keel.

While some would argue whether the "capsize ratio" is any good, I tried calculating it for a Beneteau 40.7. My calculation (which could be wrong) came out at 1.99 just barely below the 2 that is the minimum recommended for offshore.

And whatever tendency it had towards capsize in the good shape, that became far, far worse with the loss of the keel and leaked water going to leeward as the boat rolled.
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:39   #104
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
How survivable are liferafts in foul weather?

Is it reasonable to assume that, if weather conditions are bad enough, survival aboard a liferaft would be improbable, resulting in the search being called off?
Very survivable - that's what they are designed for! And the weather did not have seemed to be that bad...won't be very comfortable but four men in a 12 man liferaft they will have enough food and water for days, even weeks...all the more reason to resume the search
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Old 19-05-2014, 10:56   #105
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
The boat that lost its keel in the previous post had large water ballast tanks that were carefully managed to keep it from capsizing. It's also not clear to me whether the 14 hours to capsize was from the collision with the object or from the loss of the keel.

While some would argue whether the "capsize ratio" is any good, I tried calculating it for a Beneteau 40.7. My calculation (which could be wrong) came out at 1.99 just barely below the 2 that is the minimum recommended for offshore.

And whatever tendency it had towards capsize in the good shape, that became far, far worse with the loss of the keel and leaked water going to leeward as the boat rolled.

14hrs was from loss of keel
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