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Old 26-04-2012, 06:20   #571
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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"As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness."

Henry David Thoreau
I think HDT got it right here. For me one of the great pleasures of being on board is enjoying the solitude of a favorite anchorage or sailing along with a nice wind. A few provisions and not having an alarm clock waking me up and I feel like the King of the World. Of course when you are on a boat you are never really alone if you look around:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: YOU ARE NEVER REALLY ALONE ON THE OCEAN
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Old 26-04-2012, 06:52   #572
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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"As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness." Henry David Thoreau

This was what I was thinking about when Newt pondered how simple things could get before it became hardship. Attitude is everything.
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Old 26-04-2012, 06:57   #573
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

That quote, and that whole book, is what changed my mind from living with the hardships of never having enough money, to appreciating what I do have and making it work without complaining about it so much. Being broke is no longer a hardship. I'd still rather have more money, but now, living a relatively complicated life is a blessing. Never having enough and constantly struggling for more, is the hardship.
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:14   #574
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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This was what I was thinking about when Newt pondered how simple things could get before it became hardship. Attitude is everything.
That sums it up nicely.

I was going to say something about how organized and clean things are effects me.
http://www.monkeybarstorage.com/site...2010%20013.JPG
If everything is in it's place, it looks more simple than if things are out of place or just a mess.
http://www.monkeybarstorage.com/site...2010%20006.JPG
It it the same amount of stuff, it just works and looks better. I would think the same thing would hold for a future boat of mine. Everything I brought on board would have to be able to be put away out of the way...
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Old 26-04-2012, 08:04   #575
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Flight Risk;939012: ...I am looking at 330-500k used. Let's say I have the means to do this. The thought of spending $500k to simplify seems really selfish and is troubling me [/B
...
I see two things that are confusing here and both start with "s":

simplify and selfish need more consideration on your part.

Here's an interesting third "s":

Solitude is painful when one is young, but delightful when one is more mature. Albert Einstein


YMMV
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Old 26-04-2012, 08:21   #576
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
That quote, and that whole book, is what changed my mind from living with the hardships of never having enough money, to appreciating what I do have and making it work without complaining about it so much. Being broke is no longer a hardship. I'd still rather have more money, but now, living a relatively complicated life is a blessing. Never having enough and constantly struggling for more, is the hardship.
I think being broke is grossly overrated.;-)

Feeling (or being) 'broke' may come from our trying to plan "the future". I say: what future? When NOW is not enough then being broke starts becoming an issue.

Then again, a bum may want a needle and some thread to patch their rags, a trekker may want them to patch their tent, I may want them to fix our sails. There is the obvious need, not only to eat and drink but also to keep our immediate surroundings (these vary from nothing really to a posh penthouse in NY) in conditions that guarantee our safety and comfort.

My last thought goes to the obvious ease of being a bum in the rich societies vs. being one in the poor ones. If one day I have to dive for a sea-cock dumped by someone from a richer family then I may be broke but I will be fine. But if I get to a place where there are no seacocks ... well, I may be "rich", and busted!

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Old 26-04-2012, 08:37   #577
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

that is so true....possibly due to a healthy progression toward maturity that finds comfort in simplicity...

(is this the longest thread ever..or what ?..its pretty long..there must be a lot of us old ..excuse me .."mature" people out there pondering a simple life...and working to achieve some form thereof...have a good one ya'll...)
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Old 26-04-2012, 10:08   #578
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Here's an interesting third "s":
Thoreau needed a third "s" just to describe simplicity.

From the 2nd chapter of Walden: "Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity! I say, let your affairs be as two or three, and not a hundred or a thousand; instead of a million count half a dozen, and keep your accounts on your thumb-nail. In the midst of this chopping sea of civilized life, such are the clouds and storms and quicksands and thousand-and-one items to be allowed for, that a man has to live, if he would not founder and go to the bottom and not make his port at all, by dead reckoning, and he must be a great calculator indeed who succeeds. Simplify, simplify."
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Old 26-04-2012, 11:52   #579
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think, in the sailing aspect, simplicity will extend one's cruising grounds: space- and time-wise. It is de facto quite the opposite of what many budding cruisers believe.

We will often hear: "OK, so what do I need to go cruising" while to many long term cruisers the question is "OK, so what can I get rid off to go cruising".

I think the same applies to our fixed attitudes at any given time: in the morning I will think:"OK, we need a watermaker to spend more time offshore" but the other half of my brain will immediately respond: "forget watermaker, get huge water tanks and respectful rain catchers".

So, there is the duality and there is the relativity but all in all to be truly long term cruising cheaply does imply simplicity as the core virtue.

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Old 26-04-2012, 11:58   #580
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

BTW I also find that the further off the grid one wants to be, the more simplicity becomes an asset.

And this applies to all grids: social, technological and otherwise.

Sort of like 'go simple, go far'.

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Old 26-04-2012, 12:40   #581
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

whether you have a water maker or not is not a useful definition of simplicity. lack od conveniences does not mean you live a simple life. I would equate simple with a satet of mind. A Simple existence is one where you are at peace, don't find trivial things make you stressed etc.

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Old 26-04-2012, 13:03   #582
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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whether you have a water maker or not is not a useful definition of simplicity. lack od conveniences does not mean you live a simple life. I would equate simple with a satet of mind. A Simple existence is one where you are at peace, don't find trivial things make you stressed etc.

dave
You may have noticed I only meant the sailing side of things.

In a remote atoll, water is not a convenience, it is a bare necessity. Having a watermaker or/and huge water tanks are choices. But they are choices only at the stage when the voyage is being planned, not while you are already at the destination.

So to say, if you want a simple existence (as per your definition) then you must provide for the bare necessities (water being maybe the most urgent one) beforehand.

In this way, methods of obtaining and storing water stop being conveniences and become bare necessities.

If we were to stick to your definition of simple existence we would be looking not towards watermakers but rather towards a cheap supply of quality ganja ;-)

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Old 26-04-2012, 14:20   #583
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

So digging a bit deeper - why bother sailing simply and cheaply anyway? The cheap bit is quite easy - you don't need so much money
But why get so tied up in the simple bit? One danger is the deep routed western thinking that if I do it like this, I will be happy.
Not so sure it's as easy as that. Getting rid of the toys you don't really need does feel quite good though. But it might work a bit the other way round, you chill out a bit and don't feel the need for so many gadgets, rather than loosing some possessions makes for feel good.

Or a bit of both.

Hmmm.

Complicated this self awareness thing Black or white? Nah, multitudes of shades of grey.
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Old 26-04-2012, 18:33   #584
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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...But why get so tied up in the simple bit? One danger is the deep routed western thinking that if I do it like this, I will be happy.
Not so sure it's as easy as that. Getting rid of the toys you don't really need does feel quite good though. But it might work a bit the other way round, you chill out a bit and don't feel the need for so many gadgets, rather than loosing some possessions makes for feel good.

Or a bit of both.

Hmmm.

Complicated this self awareness thing Black or white? Nah, multitudes of shades of grey.
Reducing the amount of 'stuff' you have is freeing and cheaper. Less stuff = less stuff to worry about being damaged, failing, or stolen. In addition to less weight to move around.

I need to get in the spring cleaning frame of mind.
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Old 26-04-2012, 18:52   #585
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
So digging a bit deeper - why bother sailing simply and cheaply anyway? The cheap bit is quite easy - you don't need so much money
But why get so tied up in the simple bit? One danger is the deep routed western thinking that if I do it like this, I will be happy.
Not so sure it's as easy as that. Getting rid of the toys you don't really need does feel quite good though. But it might work a bit the other way round, you chill out a bit and don't feel the need for so many gadgets, rather than loosing some possessions makes for feel good.

Or a bit of both.

Hmmm.

Complicated this self awareness thing Black or white? Nah, multitudes of shades of grey.
You make an excellent point and one that has been in the back of my mind. It's as if we are saying "if I could just make things simple enough I will be happy and life will be good." Maybe we are just creating another self-image, another condition to strive for, another ideal, another trap. What's the saying ... if you're not happy now, you never will be.


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