the OTHER forward!!!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Is it just me... I couldn't imagine standing forward of the wheel and facing aft when going astern.

Done it a few time on a different boats - including on one where the throttle lever had been reversed for years - fwd to slow down, aft to speed up!

[a64pilot]

We had an aircraft tug at my last work place, the transmission lever was horizontal, but worked like a car, pull it backwards to go forward and forward to go backwards, cause there was no P, you used neutral which just like a car was between fwd and rev.
Almost killed a guy when he jumped on it and pushed the lever forward to go forward, and it went backwards in a jerk, which of course caused him to be thrown forward and his foot added a lot of fuel, went under a wing and pinned him between the wing and the tug. He was bruised but OK.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There was a study commissioned by the FAA years ago to try to determine why apparently very professional, very experienced pilots very rarely did incredibly stupid things, things that just didn't make sense.
A lot of money was spent and I think a couple of years went by before they basically gave up, seems all the could come up with was an acronym to name it SLOJ, for sudden loss of judgement.

Also known as 'brain fart', and unfortunately we are all subject to it. I couldn't tell you how many well trained, intelligent refinery operators I've seen do something inexplicably stupid (myself included). We'll know when true AI is developed when computers start doing the same thing.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Looking more closely it appears (to me) that the sense of engine control lever is "backwards".

That is, it has to be moved towards the front of the boat when going astern and vice versa; if so, that's not intuitive (IMO).

Initially (around 2 secs) the lever seems to have been pushed forward and around 9 secs, it is being pushed aft. Then again at 19 secs it is moved forward again. The boat initially is going astern and between 9 and 19 secs, it moves ahead.

Is anyone here familiar with the sense of the control lever on this model of boat?

That's not the way I see it. It looks as though the throttle is working in the usual sense.

I've just downloaded it and run through frame by frame in VLC.

She is approaching at high speed. Initially, she has the throttle in slow forward.
At about 4 seconds she gives it a short burst in forward, returns it to slow forward and takes her hand away from the throttle.
At 8 seconds she starts to panic at her approach speed, grabs the throttle and puts it into full reverse by mistake.
At 9 seconds, she recognises her mistake and puts the throttle into forward.
At 111 seconds, they hit the dock.
At 13 seconds, she puts the throttle back into neutral.
At 18 seconds, she grabs the throttle again, but doesn't adjust it.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's not the way I see it. It looks as though the throttle is working in the usual sense.

I've just downloaded it and run through frame by frame in VLC.

She is approaching at high speed. Initially, she has the throttle in slow forward.
At about 4 seconds she gives it a short burst in forward, returns it to slow forward and takes her hand away from the throttle.
At 8 seconds she starts to panic at her approach speed, grabs the throttle and puts it into full reverse by mistake.
At 9 seconds, she recognises her mistake and puts the throttle into forward.
At 111 seconds, they hit the dock.
At 13 seconds, she puts the throttle back into neutral.
At 18 seconds, she grabs the throttle again, but doesn't adjust it.

You might be right and I haven't used VLC to analyse it but I'm wondering how she is approaching with so much sternway on when the lever is supposedly set to slow ahead with a boost to full ahead (at 4 secs). I don't see any prop wash until just around the 9 sec mark which I thought was the result of the burst of power at 8(ish) secs. This suggested this movement of the lever resulted the prop going ahead...

But again, I only using the youtube images and I might have is a*$# about.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Wotname

You might be right and I haven't used VLC to analyse it but I'm wondering how she is approaching with so much sternway on when the lever is supposedly set to slow ahead with a boost to full ahead (at 4 secs). I don't see any prop wash until just around the 9 sec mark which I thought was the result of the burst of power at 8(ish) secs. This suggested this movement of the lever resulted the prop going ahead...

But again, I only using the youtube images and I might have is a*$# about.

The way I see it:
I think she's probably going so fast initially that she is over-running any prop wash from a "slow ahead" throttle..

At 8 seconds there is a small amount of wash coming out sideways from under the stern. That would be from the reversing.
The small amount at 9 seconds is just after she switches back to forward.
The first real prop wash appears at 12-13 seconds when they bounce of the dock and start going forward

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by StuM

The way I see it:
I think she's probably going so fast initially that she is over-running any prop wash from a "slow ahead" throttle..

At 8 seconds there is a small amount of wash coming out sideways from under the stern. That would be from the reversing.
The small amount at 9 seconds is just after she switches back to forward.
The first real prop wash appears at 12-13 seconds when they bounce of the dock and start going forward

Either way, it was a cluster...

[meatservo]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

We had an aircraft tug at my last work place, the transmission lever was horizontal, but worked like a car, pull it backwards to go forward and forward to go backwards, cause there was no P, you used neutral which just like a car was between fwd and rev.
Almost killed a guy when he jumped on it and pushed the lever forward to go forward, and it went backwards in a jerk, which of course caused him to be thrown forward and his foot added a lot of fuel, went under a wing and pinned him between the wing and the tug. He was bruised but OK.

Reminds me of the Payne Stewart crash of a Lear 35 charter. On a Lear 35, when you turn the oxygen valve on, it says "OFF".



meatservo

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wotname

So perhaps it is just me

I am presuming when you are standing forward of the wheel, you are also facing aft (when going astern), I am not sure if sailorchic means she faces forward when working jib or otherwise.

Just to clarify, I never stand behind (or sit behind) the wheel any more. I do all helm control, both forward and reverse, from in front of the wheel (either standing or sitting, left or right handed.)

. I still steer just fine, but have easy access to jib sheets, and when docking far easier to step lively to the dock or grab the boat hook to pull the stern a tad closer when I screw up the docking. Luckily rare on that last bit.

I don't own a car so no worries me standing in front of that wheel. I'm blonde, but not that blonde.... Hopefully...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Just to clarify, I never stand behind (or sit behind) the wheel any more. I do all helm control, both forward and reverse, from in front of the wheel (either standing or sitting, left or right handed.)

. I still steer just fine, but have easy access to jib sheets, and when docking far easier to step lively to the dock or grab the boat hook to pull the stern a tad closer when I screw up the docking. Luckily rare on that last bit.

I don't own a car so no worries me standing in front of that wheel. I'm blonde, but not that blonde.... Hopefully...

And to clarify even more, does the trunk of your body face the bow or stern when backing up?

[Pelagic]

Wottie, she said she didn't own a car, so no trunk either[emoji1]

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Wottie, she said she didn't own a car, so no trunk either[emoji1]

Ahh, you mean no boot...

[Pelagic]

Glad it was not lost in translation [emoji4]

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Glad it was not lost in translation [emoji4]

To clarify, is it T or A to the bow?

[sv Grateful]

Yep, a pretty ham fisted approach. That said, when the throttle does not respond as expected, it takes the brain a moment to figure it out.

Several thousands of miles into the delivery of a three year old Lagoon 400, I moved the port throttle from fwd to rev and increased power to spin the boat for an approach to the fuel dock.

Instead of turning right, we rapidly turned left !?! Mindlessly, I moved the lever to neutral and tried again with the same result. It took a surprisingly long time to figure out that we had no reverse on that engine. In fact, a very difficult single engine landing (rocks, nearby moored boats, and strong wind - Olbia Marina in Sardinia for those who know the spot) was complicated by the fact that I had failed to secure the idling but in fwd gear engine... I cannot imagine why it took until we were within inches of the pier for it to dawn on me to shut down the bad engine, but it did.

Postscript, the problem was not rigging by Lagoon or maintenance by the owner. A pin (picture a very fancy machined cotter pin) in the linkage within the sail drive was not peened over during initial assembly and just fell apart after three years of use. We couldn't get deeply enough into the drive to recover it with the boat at in the water, so recovery and correct installation cost the owner over three thousand euros - thanks Yanmar. At least we didn't have to repair gel coat.