Taking a Shotgun to Bahamas from US and Back

[boatman61]

I was raised in a country where everyone has a gun.. legality does not enter the equation.. the tribesmen manage their own territories and the Pakistan Army fears to tread without permission..
It has ever been so.. since the invention of firearms.. they don't need to import/smuggle more than one.. then the gunsmiths of Peshawar will replicate it in short order and turn them out in hundreds.. true they have a tendency to 'Banana Peel' on occasion but they are generally functional weapons.
However.. prior to the cross border drone strikes and raids by US forces and the recent factionalism in the NWFP, random mass killings did not happen..
So sorry guys.. the Pathans are safer to live amongst than the average American town/city statistically speaking.

[a64pilot]

I was astonished to find out about the killings from celebratory gunfire.
Especially in the US, celebratory gunfire? I've not heard of much more foolish things than that, what we are out of firecrackers?

Long ago I decided if I were to have a home defense pistol, it would have Glaser safety slugs in it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug
And if you want a long gun, which according to many experts is safer for you and more effective, a smaller shotgun, say a 20Ga with bird shot, maybe a side by side Stage Coach gun?


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[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

No court system should simply require you to die when attacked by criminals.

That's a great opinion, but as I've posted before: at least here in the Netherlands, the courts don't care much for personal opinions. You may feel justified, but if you weren't by law (and when it comes to shooting someone, you rarely are) you're off to court and very likely jail.

On the bright side: our jails aren't too bad. The Norwegians at least give them the thumbs-up

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

That's a great opinion, but as I've posted before: at least here in the Netherlands, the courts don't care much for personal opinions. You may feel justified, but if you weren't by law (and when it comes to shooting someone, you rarely are) you're off to court and very likely jail.

On the bright side: our jails aren't too bad. The Norwegians at least give them the thumbs-up

That wasn't my quote LB, I just agree with it and the knowledge that opinions don't mean much.

When someone comes up with a plan to get criminals to not use weapons, I'll raise a glass. Mine own plan isn't all that popular.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

That wasn't my quote LB,

Sorry, my bad

[Tellie]

Oh how I hate wading into this stuff, but which foreign countries are these (and examples and links of real cases we can review please) that are the ones that say if you shoot someone who is beating you to death with a hammer, machete, or generally truly attempting to end your life violently that you will go to jail if you shoot them? I actually give most foreign countries and their law enforcement credit for a bit of common sense regardless of how Americans are perceived. I'd really like to review a few of these oh so many cases that are cited.

[BigNickMontana]

I am just going to put this out there to further the discussion, if I am ever in a far off foreign land where I am given no choice but to use deadly force to defend myself, I'm not sitting round waiting for the cops, I am putting as much blue water between me and the place as humanly possible as fast as possible.

The justice system in our own country doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, I'm not trusting my future to those that have been routinely sub standard to our own.

I hope I am never in that situation, but it brings me back to a piece of advice that was given to me by my first Chief in the Navy:

"Never walk into a situation you cannot WALK out of."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaop6e17aRs

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by sck5

a foreigner's opinion of what they "should" do isnt going to swing much weight in their courts. The very fact that you, an American , are telling them what they "should" do will just reinforce their existing opinion that many Americans are arrogant gun nuts.

American gun nuts are very well aware of this. There are jurisdictions within the U.S.that are just as bad - New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maryland, and D.C., for example.


No jail time for Philadelphia mom who carried legally owned gun in New Jersey | 6abc.com

[a64pilot]

An issue that sometimes I run into is some people won't take as many safety precautions, because they have a gun to protect themselves. Will allow themselves to be in a situation that they wouldn't if they weren't armed.
Now as unlikely as that sounds, I also believe people will make sailing decisions that are influenced because they have an EPIRB and or Seatow, Satphone, etc.

Let's get off of gun for a second, and just say deadly weapon, deadly force etc.

These are absolute last resort measures, if you ever have to resort to them, you have failed, just like that EPIRB. Both come with possibly very bad consequences

Severely injure someone or kill them and run? Has to be a fast lane to a very long time incarcerated as a min.?



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[hellosailor]

There's an inconvenient old US Supreme Court ruling that goes back to covered wagon days. They said that if you're traveling through "strange lands" you have a right to bring weapons with you for self-protection. And while various modern enclaves that don't want to recognize permits from other states tend to say otherwise, as a matter of "states rights" or whatever...eventually, they may be told "If you don't recognize a gun permit from another state, you'd better not expect that other state to recognize your drivers' licenses either." Reciprocity can be a bitch, especially when federal law requires sister states to play nice and recognize these things.
But as a LEO told me once years ago, always carry a throw-away piece. And if you have to shoot someone, you put the throw-away in their hand, and you claim self-defense. Because the only time that you are ALWAYS allowed to use deadly force, is IN RESPONSE to deadly force. And when your attacker is found with a gun in his hand, your use of deadly force is much more easily justified.
Ain't the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And if you have to shoot someone, you put the throw-away in their hand, and you claim self-defense. Because the only time that you are ALWAYS allowed to use deadly force, is IN RESPONSE to deadly force.

-edit-

Never mind, I misread. Still, not exactly air-tight ...

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

So he shot himself with his own gun which allows you to claim self-defense?

I think I'm misunderstanding something here

It comes from Cops shows mostly I believe, but theory is a dishonest Cop would carry a cheap "throwaway" gun with them, then if they shot someone, take out the throwaway and put in the shot persons hands, and claim they were fixing to shoot the Cop.




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[Lizzy Belle]

I misread, edited my post to reflect, but as it now states ... Hardly an "air tight" way to make shooting an unarmed person appear more or less legal ...

It would take a well trained person to remain calm enough to plant a gun right after killing someone, let alone take care of prints etc. And that's just one of many problems with this "solution".

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I misread, edited my post to reflect, but as it now states ... Hardly an "air tight" way to make shooting an unarmed person appear more or less legal ...

It would take a well trained person to remain calm enough to plant a gun right after killing someone, let alone take care of prints etc. And that's just one of many problems with this "solution".

That is the reason I believe most criminals get caught, not that they are necessarily of low intelligence, just in the heat of the moment it's tough to get everything straight, unless your a really accomplished lier.

Imagine if you will when it's discovered you planted a gun on the deceased how that is going to work for you.


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[BigNickMontana]

Planting a gun on someone is one of the dumbest damn things I have ever heard, it shows a level of premeditation that could turn an innocent man guilty.

Its one thing to haul ass and disappear because you are afraid for your freedom after defending yourself, its completely another to plant evidence.