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Old 02-12-2013, 13:33   #46
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

My 2 cents worth. If I have crew, then obviously watches. When I don't (I have done some extensive Singlehanding, including racing offshore) I use AIS with alarm set to any vessel coming within 2 NM of me within 15 mins (gives time to get out of bed, check everything etc). I also have the radar running with a 4 NM guard zone. Both are hooked up to an alarm - a recording of a 688 class Nuclear Attack sub alarm - it would wake the dead! There is NO chance of sleeping through it.

Island Time (My boat) has an AP. I have a remote for that, which can display all the current data on the vessel, same as the PC. I take that to bed, so when I wake, I can check course, windspeed, cross track, polars, whatever. This often means that if I wake and nothing is obviously amis (heel changed, motion changed, any other feeling, plus the obvious ones - flogging sails etc) check the remote, roll over go back to sleep.

After thousands of miles like this, I trust the system. I have often slept for a whole night in the right situation. I have also gone over 36 hours with no sleep at all. Limited sleep is dangerous, and I don't cope well with 15-30mins at a time.

There is risk in all sailing. I accept the risk I could hit something small or wooden. I have done so with a crew on watch... but never solo.

Just my expericences. In over 40 years and many miles... YOU must make your own choices.
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Old 02-12-2013, 14:06   #47
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pirate Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
I am not trying to change behavior or wage a crusade here all I am trying to do is point out that on a public site such as this when the question of sailing without a proper watch is brought up it should be acknowledged that this is not proper behavior no different than speeding or overdoing the booze. That people are going to do it anyway is not the point. That it is in the nature of humans to do so is not the point. The point is there is a standard of correct behavior in this circumstance and that calls for a proper watch at all times. Single handers who ignore that standard can even though rare find themselves in the position of causing a collision except for the probability factor no different than somebody who causes an accident by excessive speed or DUI and most of those people if asked prior to the accident would make very light of their transgressions regarding the accepted standards of behavior.
Yup... I put my hands up... if I'd stayed in the Caribbean I would not have caused the accident in the English Channel 47days later... Poor guy had to go through all that trouble with his Insurance company explaining how 4 people could not see a Benteau c321 with all sail.. beam on in broad daylight.. just coz I got in his way 5 miles of the English coast.. totally wrecked his w/end visit from France...
Man I feel so GUILTY....
NOT....
pissed of that's for sure..
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:15   #48
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

Anybody inexperienced in the ways of the sea can run into someone or something- I can't tell you the times I have felt something was wrong, come up on deck and find crew heading straight for disaster. (usually a rock reef) I don't think solo has much to do with it, although I am thinking about heave tooing when 60 miles or so off the coast of Washington and getting 4 hours of sleep- thus dividing my 30 hour solo passage into two 15 hour passages...
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:07   #49
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Wotname; To knowingly commit a negligent act that will increase the chance of an accident is morally wrong. Lets say two sailboat collide with loss of life one boat single hander asleep the other a small family with 2 small kids asleep below, one kid dies in the collision. Where does that leave the sleeping singlehander morally? does it matter that it is a relatively rare type of accident? Because it is rare does that make the wrong right? As I stated before I doubt this is going to change any single handers behavior no more so than changing the attitudes of a habitual drunk drivers.
No comment on the morality of the situation but this scenario was reality for a couple of young friends in the 1980 s.

Two eith baby anchored at Great Keppel Island, Australia and a fishing boat on autopilot smacked into them un middle of the night. Sank within minutes - just time to scramble into the dingy. Took a year or two before fishing boat insurers paid up on the court steps at last minute. Moved onto another boat later.
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Old 02-12-2013, 22:23   #50
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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To knowingly commit a negligent act that will increase the chance of an accident is morally wrong.
So basically you are saying that getting in your car and turning the ignition is morally wrong?
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Old 02-12-2013, 23:19   #51
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

If you are DUI yes. If you purposefully and significantly speed yes. It only reflects on your moral standing if you know its wrong and is breaking excepted standards of what is negligent. The fact that an act is dangerous is not the issue. The real issue is if the danger or cost is to others while you purposefully ignore the safety standards, As in not keeping a watch when you know one is called for for good reason.
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Old 02-12-2013, 23:47   #52
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

I'm a solo sailor. I'm not going to tell you what i do. This is one of those 'what if i hit a submerged container' questions. (a) it isnt much of a risk, (b) there are other things to worry about that actually matter and (c) If you dont know the answer, you'll have to work it out for yourself and arguing about it on the internet aint going to help you.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:29   #53
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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(a) it isnt much of a risk, (b) there are other things to worry about that actually matter
Sorry but I have to disagree, based on my own personal experience and not some discussion on the internet or something I heard about from a friend of a friend.

40 years and about 20,000 nm on the ocean which is far less than many sailors on this forum. In that time twice, if I had not been standing watch, I would have collided with another sailboat where there was no one standing watch. In my opinion, two collisions at sea is (a) a risk and (b) something to worry about.

Please note, I am not saying they were solo. Could have been half dozen crew on board all below having tea. Regardless of the number of crew on the other boat, they were not standing watch and that is the issue.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:47   #54
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Yup... I put my hands up... if I'd stayed in the Caribbean I would not have caused the accident in the English Channel 47days later... Poor guy had to go through all that trouble with his Insurance company explaining how 4 people could not see a Benteau c321 with all sail.. beam on in broad daylight.. just coz I got in his way 5 miles of the English coast.. totally wrecked his w/end visit from France...
Man I feel so GUILTY....
NOT....
pissed of that's for sure..

Appears you neglected any attempt to avoid a collision regardless of who was at fault. Could you not see the other boat? If you were not providing watch of some type, visual or electronic, how did you avoid responsibility?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:40   #55
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Sorry but I have to disagree, based on my own personal experience and not some discussion on the internet or something I heard about from a friend of a friend.

40 years and about 20,000 nm on the ocean which is far less than many sailors on this forum. In that time twice, if I had not been standing watch, I would have collided with another sailboat where there was no one standing watch. In my opinion, two collisions at sea is (a) a risk and (b) something to worry about.

Please note, I am not saying they were solo. Could have been half dozen crew on board all below having tea. Regardless of the number of crew on the other boat, they were not standing watch and that is the issue.
Just for some context - where these incidents coastal or well offshore, off the continental shelf?
As a single hander, I find it even more stressful when the water is less than 4000m deep.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:51   #56
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pirate Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Appears you neglected any attempt to avoid a collision regardless of who was at fault. Could you not see the other boat? If you were not providing watch of some type, visual or electronic, how did you avoid responsibility?
Both guilty of failing to keep adequate look out...
But...
He was also guilty of not giving way to a vessel under sail and then attempting to flee the scene without providing assistance etc;
Hit and run... reversed of for 500 metres then draped something over the stern to hide his name... he was caught trying to sneak into Salcombe after dark..
As for the rest.. read the post again..
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:05   #57
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Just for some context - where these incidents coastal or well offshore, off the continental shelf?
As a single hander, I find it even more stressful when the water is less than 4000m deep.
One was coastal, one offshore. The coastal was broad daylight about 4 miles off the south side of Delaware Bay. We were on stbd tack, southbound the other vessel on port tack headed offshore. I watched the other boat leave the harbor and head offshore. Kept checking the bearing and it stayed constant. Since we were stbd and slightly ahead we should have been the standon vessel but he didn't change course and I didn't want to cut too close across his bow so changed course to pass astern. Never saw anyone in the cockpit of the other boat.

The other was south of Cuba about halfway between the Windward Passage and Jamaica. Not a shipping channel and certainly well offshore. Middle of the night so couldn't tell if anyone was on deck but they were running without lights and we were lit up so assume if anyone had been on watch they would have seen us. I just had time to disengage the AP and change course. Passed less than 100' away but would have hit head on if I had not altered course.
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:06   #58
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Both guilty of failing to keep adequate look out...
But...
He was also guilty of not giving way to a vessel under sail and then attempting to flee the scene without providing assistance etc;
Hit and run... reversed of for 500 metres then draped something over the stern to hide his name... he was caught trying to sneak into Salcombe after dark..
As for the rest.. read the post again..
OK-- I did not read all that in your post. Anybody who goes to the extremes you explained ....well let him take full responsibility!
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Old 03-12-2013, 14:14   #59
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One was coastal, one offshore. The coastal was broad daylight about 4 miles off the south side of Delaware Bay. We were on stbd tack, southbound the other vessel on port tack headed offshore. I watched the other boat leave the harbor and head offshore. Kept checking the bearing and it stayed constant. Since we were stbd and slightly ahead we should have been the standon vessel but he didn't change course and I didn't want to cut too close across his bow so changed course to pass astern. Never saw anyone in the cockpit of the other boat.

The other was south of Cuba about halfway between the Windward Passage and Jamaica. Not a shipping channel and certainly well offshore. Middle of the night so couldn't tell if anyone was on deck but they were running without lights and we were lit up so assume if anyone had been on watch they would have seen us. I just had time to disengage the AP and change course. Passed less than 100' away but would have hit head on if I had not altered course.
Thanks. Without lights as well!
Coastal it's fishing boats I don't trust.
Well, don't trust anyone, fishing boats just get trusted the least
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