Serious Gun Question for EU Med

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Is it not the Russian "Bear? One of their legacy bombers is definitely the Bear.

Yes, but we (Europe) are all best buddies with the Ruskies now because they play real football.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8395226.html

[friz]

Originally Posted by Cadence

So far I think I've seen one post germane to the OPs question.

Possibly one or two more but in the aggregate you are correct. I believe the Op asked about bringing his Mossberg shotgun aboard his boat when entering specific countries. Somehow I don't think he was asking about the feasabilty of carrying his shotgun around the streets of Naples as so many of the replies have addressed. Thank you to those who could stay on point.

[Elie]

Originally Posted by atoll

i have declared my fire arms in gib,malta and cyprus,all of which locked them up for the duration of the stay,a few times i left them in cyprus whilst cruising turkey and greece.

other times i did not declare them,as we had a port clearance all the way from cyprus to gib and never bothered checking in ,nor needed to under eu rules.

Lucky you!. Got away with it without any problem. Like many illegal things we all do at times, it is the simplest way to avoid the hassle . But this has to be put in balance against the possible harsh consequences if discovered. With firearms, considering the security and tensions in Europe, I think the gamble is quite high. In my view an unacceptable gamble. Declaring your guns at each port of entry seems to be the best bet. In the worst case(In France!) they will confiscate your guns and ammo and return them upon your departure. But then you may question the purpose of having a gun in first place.

[Lserpa]

Hi Ken,

It is my firm conviction that Americans and their guns should be kept out of (at least) our waters.

I have a policy of not denouncing other people to the authorities whatever they do. This "whatever" has a few exceptions. Carrying guns is one of those exceptions.

I don't think I am the only one following this principle and strongly suggest you that if you do bring guns don't tell anyone, and follow strictly the rules.

Regards,

Luis Serpa

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Elie

Lucky you!. Got away with it without any problem. Like many illegal things we all do at times, it is the simplest way to avoid the hassle . But this has to be put in balance against the possible harsh consequences if discovered. With firearms, considering the security and tensions in Europe, I think the gamble is quite high. In my view an unacceptable gamble. Declaring your guns at each port of entry seems to be the best bet. In the worst case(In France!) they will confiscate your guns and ammo and return them upon your departure. But then you may question the purpose of having a gun in first place.

i cant see that i was breaking the law actually,as i was in possesion of a valid clearance certificate,stops were short ,waiting for weather windows and generally in places where it was not possible to check in,also as eu citizens we were under no obligation to declare our entry to the immigration.

had we stopped for any length of time,as we did in malta morocco etc,we would have declared them,and did without any difficulty.

[Jdeuel]

Originally Posted by Lserpa

Hi Ken,

It is my firm conviction that Americans and their guns should be kept out of (at least) our waters.

I have a policy of not denouncing other people to the authorities whatever they do. This "whatever" has a few exceptions. Carrying guns is one of those exceptions.

I don't think I am the only one following this principle and strongly suggest you that if you do bring guns don't tell anyone, and follow strictly the rules.

Regards,

Luis Serpa

Interesting sentiment. Isn’t St Maarten’s economy entirely based on tourism revenue? With the majority of those tourists from the US?

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by Jdeuel

Interesting sentiment. Isn’t St Maarten’s economy entirely based on tourism revenue? With the majority of those tourists from the US?

Wrong!! the Sint Maarten's economy floats on dutch tax payers Euros..

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Miker1944

I hope you get some serious and factual answers, I’ll be following for current information. Thanks for posting the question.

Originally Posted by friz

Possibly one or two more but in the aggregate you are correct. I believe the Op asked about bringing his Mossberg shotgun aboard his boat when entering specific countries. Somehow I don't think he was asking about the feasabilty of carrying his shotgun around the streets of Naples as so many of the replies have addressed. Thank you to those who could stay on point.

+1

The OP asked a well formed and interesting question.

I personally have found the on point posts very informative. And that is why in general Cruisers Forum is one of the better online sites for knowledge share.

I had no idea there was a European Firearms pass. Most interesting. Which doesn't imply I want to carry weapons aboard in Europe.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Lserpa

Hi Ken,

It is my firm conviction that Americans and their guns should be kept out of (at least) our waters.

I have a policy of not denouncing other people to the authorities whatever they do. This "whatever" has a few exceptions. Carrying guns is one of those exceptions.

I don't think I am the only one following this principle and strongly suggest you that if you do bring guns don't tell anyone, and follow strictly the rules.

Regards,

Luis Serpa

Thank goodness there are so many people like you, with nothing to offer here but their unsolicited opinion, which they (you) are sure we are all just waiting to hear.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Group9

Thank goodness there are so many people like you, with nothing to offer here but their unsolicited opinion, which they (you) are sure we are all just waiting to hear.

It's hard to imagine that someone would make a blanket statement that he'd like to exclude 320 million people from his waters. Honestly, sometimes one has to wonder.



We'll be sure to say hello when we stop into St. Maarten this winter, if you can tolerate our flag...



Ken, I'm glad you're getting some decent answers. Maybe we'll see you over there.

[uhu]

Originally Posted by Jdeuel

Interesting sentiment. Isn’t St Maarten’s economy entirely based on tourism revenue? With the majority of those tourists from the US?

... some people have a concience that goes BEYOND money ...

which, for other people (like the infamous dealmakers) is a concept just too difficult to understand.

[Juho]

In gun threads it could be a good starting point to assume that both US and European style gun policy can be justified and can make sense. No need to consider either one to be fundamentally wrong.

From the US point of view people are allowed to defend themselves against criminals using guns. From the European perspective (in most countries?) guns are ok for hunting and sports, but private people can't get a licence for a gun for the purpose of shooting other people (that job is for the police and military forces only).

In the open seas you shall follow the rules of the country of your flag. That means that US boats can have a gun to protect themselves against pirates when crossing the Atlantic. But there may be special arrangements on how to handle such guns when they arrive to a country that does not support carrying such guns in boats.

If your guns are for hunting and sports, maybe you can simply declare them and use them as they are supposed to be used while you are visiting the country. If your gun is for self protection, the philosophy should be to take the gun out of use by one way or another. Some countries might just seal the gun storage locker, some others might take the gun away while you visit the country. It should be obvious that you should abandon the idea of keeping a gun for self protection (sealed or not) while sailing in the European waters (not just coming from or leaving to the open seas).

That last point is one key reason for writing this comment. If your gun is for self protection, philosophically the best thing to do would be to leave it at the first point of entry when starting to sail European waters (not just coming or leaving), and take it back when you head back to the open seas. You should aim at following the same rules that also others follow, i.e. no self defence weapons in the private boats for anyone.

[a64pilot]

I believe it at least used to be common for Commercial carriers to hire private security firms to be on board, and armed.
I want to think that there were British firms and that they had ships of men and arms prepositioned in certain areas? If so then it was big business, not just some wanna be fly by night mercenaries.
Anyway I also want to think that it wasn’t uncommon for these hired security forces to toss the weapons overboard upon arrival to a secure port, the hassle etc of having the firearms exceeded their worth.

Assuming these big businesses couldn’t crack the code on the importation if you will of firearms, then it may be a difficult nut to crack.
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pirat...ry?id=16352840

[Cafe Racer]

I sail in Greece every summer for last 10 years and my boat is based there (so I am familiar with bureaucracy - once you have to face it). Now, consider that in most of smaller towns or places we don't lock our boats when we go out in town or village for a dinner. Just take the wallet and IDs with us. On anchor, I always leave the dingy in the water tied to the boat and never lift it up. The only single criminal act around boats that I have ever heard of in those years was someone got on the boat and took a pair of sunglasses laying on the cockpit table.
As many have said, from our point of view carrying a gun is just a crazy idea and knowing how bureaucracy works here it would be a massive hassle. You dont need it - better leave it somewhere and enjoy the wine.
One point you should also consider especially if you come towards east med and Greece specifically - many of the US flagged boats we see here are actually of Turkish owners (Delaware registration). In the current climate between Greece and Turkey in the Aegean and with the influx of illegal immigrants, there is a good chance US flagged boats to be checked more often by port police - better be the usual tourist without the need to explain every time and check all the paperwork.
Hope this helps a little.

Enjoy your stay!

[Liburnian]

In general in European countries you get firearm license after strict check up for no convictions or risky behaviour (home violence, drug or alcochol adiction etc.) and firearm class, which includes legislation, first aid and similar issues. You have also to get medical and psychological certificate. After that you have an exam
If you're not a professional (policeman, security guard...) there are just 2 ways to obtain a firearm: sport or hunting. LEGALY YOU CANNOT HAVE IT FOR SELFDEFENSE (or sucide).
I joined the local marksman club (founded in 15th century) and asked at the municipiality office for purchasing permission. Then I got my CZ 75 SP-1 Shadow 9/19mm. Oh, yes for buying 500 or 1000 rounds I have again to go to the office for another paper and again to pay 13 euros (for paper, not munition, haha).
I'm alloved to carry the gun in the gun-case from home to the shooting range. It's forbidden to carry it in holster or to show it to the people or disturb them.
Ok, there is this EU PASS, but you need an invitation for a competition or to be a hunter or something.. Selfdefense, paranoia, terrorism etc. are not excusable reasons.

The story does not end: there is no a supreme EU law, each country has its own rules. For instance I cannot take my gun to the competition in France and passing Italy, as in Italy 9/19mm (Luger, Parabellum) is forbidden for civilians.
All this mess costs a lot of money and if you are not a criminal buying an unreliable gun on the black market, there is a certain lack of motivation for having firearms here comparing to the US, where the absence of such mess produces another...
So, my advice for US cruisers would be: books, beer, relax, have a plastic money, swarovsky jewels and not diamonds, forget Hollywood scripts, enjoy... Occasinaly your Navy vessels visit our ports and we can admire their guns. You can leave your toys at home we're already impressed by your Navy.


I like shooting at the shooting range once a week. 30-50 rounds... 500 cartridges cost me over 100euros (+ tax for that paper) Maybe bowling would be better for me.