Sea Tow

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Wavewacker

If no one laughed at it, I'd get the Home Depot hardware and buy two, one to use and one to stow just in case. If it lasted only two years and replaced them, I'd break even in 30 years, not factoring inflation of each item. I think many items with "marine" or "aircraft" are over rated and over priced as well, wo when you can substitute, I owuld.


.

This continues the off topic but that turnbuckle (the example used) (plain steel) is going to break and cost you your rig. Might want to factor that in.

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

AG, those VMR groups will indeed charge for a tow in non-emergency situations. Pal of ours was bringing a largish(50+ ft) woodie into Moreton Bay, jury rigged with a broken timber mast, engine died in a permanent sort of way, tide ebbing, southerly change nearby. Got out of the main ship channel, got a hook down, called the VMR. In due time, they came out and towed him the twenty or so miles into Manly. Nicely done, too. Then presented him with a bill for around a thousand bucks.

BOGGLE!

They did WHAT? Which organisation was this? I can tell you with certainty that I am SES Marine Rescue and we NEVER charge for recovering someone. That's a genuine breakdown, be it flat battery, out of gas, whatever.

We ask people if they would like to make a donation, but it's not mandatory, if they do, that's nice, if they don't that's fine too. The state govt fund the rescue boat and the fuel etc, and there are registration fees for boats and an emergency services levy, so it's funded. Donations help with other things but we certainly don't present an account!

Our philosophy is that a breakdown, be it lack of fuel, flat battery, mechanical failure, dismasting (we've been to one of those where the guy got his rig caught in a channel beacon - hell of a mess) whatever, even if it's not life threatening immediately, if the conditions change or they are stuck out there for some time, it can become life threatening, so we treat each recovery as avoiding the need for a rescue later.

I would remind this VMR org that they are VOLUNTEER marine rescue, if they are a commercial operation masquerading as a rescue service, I suspect that may actually be unlawful, for a start, their vessels would need to be in survey and their skipper would need a coxsains ticket at a minimum.

As far as we are concerned an engine failure in a boat with no other means of propulsion is a rescue situation now or a potential rescue situation later, in either case, we go and we don't charge for it. Period.

ON one and only one occasion have we sought cost recovery. It was Christmas Day two years ago. The boat went out to recover a boat that had a seized engine a couple miles out. ON the way, they came across a boat moored just outside the channel that hailed them and said their engine had died. The crew told them they would recover the boat further out first, then come back for them. They hooked up the other boat and towed them back, as they passed the other breakdown the skipper of the boat they had in tow commented that he'd towed that boat out here because they couldn't get their engine started! Naturally our skipper was not impressed so he called marine and harbours and the police. Went back and towed them in and they were met by the DMH inspector and a couple of cops. We heard that they were pursuing full cost recovery (a 28' cat with twin 225 Yamaha 4 strokes uses a lot of fuel) AND criminal charges for fraud as well as maritime related charges for going out in a boat that was unseaworthy, deficient safety gear etc.

Some people are just plain stupid.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I have no idea what a Sea Tow type of outfit would have charged for a non-member in such a case. I believe there is one started up in that area, so perhaps some real data will emerge.

I guess that the basic lesson here is to AWAYS negotiate a price before accepting commercial aid.

Won't argue with the last part. But the situation you describe is unconscionable. People in need of rescue or recovery are vulnerable, that's why we don't charge.

Been to some 'real' ones too, including a fatal sinking. Not good. Going to fit the widow with a bill for recovering her husband's boat from the bottom too? Not bloody likely.

AussieGeoff

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by xymotic

The US doesn't charge for rescue either. Being out of gas or stuck in the mud is not an emergency

Depends on how long they are there and what the conditions are. Even if it's not an immediate rescue it might well become one eventually. We don't quibble, we just go get 'em and rescue or recovery regardless, we don't fit them with a bill. (Yes, I'm VMR myself).

Originally Posted by xymotic

In most local areas, the sheriff or harbormaster will pull you in.

Don't have a 'sheriff'. DMH have a pilot boat, but if you call them they will simply handball it to us (SES). We are the state govt sponsored marine rescue organisation here. They provide funds from the emergency services levy and general revenue to pay for the boat, fuel and maintenance. We ask for a donation following a recovery, but it's completely voluntary, despite that, many people do donate, depending on their financial circumstances.

Originally Posted by xymotic

In an actual emergency the Coast guard and others will do everything possible. In one case a few years ago, the US navy stopped an exercise and steamed an entire Aircraft Carrier Battle group a couple hundred miles to get within helo range to pick up a girl off a cruise ship for emergency surgery. That involved a few THOUSAND people, what do you suppose that cost? Navy saves teen with surgery at sea - Health - Health care - More health news - msnbc.com

As it should be though. Life is irreplaceable.

AussieGeoff

[downunder]

Originally Posted by AussieGeoff

BOGGLE!

They did WHAT? Which organisation was this? I can tell you with certainty that I am SES Marine Rescue and we NEVER charge for recovering someone. That's a genuine breakdown, be it flat battery, out of gas, whatever.

We ask people if they would like to make a donation, but it's not mandatory, if they do, that's nice, if they don't that's fine too. The state govt fund the rescue boat and the fuel etc, and there are registration fees for boats and an emergency services levy, so it's funded. Donations help with other things but we certainly don't present an account!

Our philosophy is that a breakdown, be it lack of fuel, flat battery, mechanical failure, dismasting (we've been to one of those where the guy got his rig caught in a channel beacon - hell of a mess) whatever, even if it's not life threatening immediately, if the conditions change or they are stuck out there for some time, it can become life threatening, so we treat each recovery as avoiding the need for a rescue later.

I would remind this VMR org that they are VOLUNTEER marine rescue, if they are a commercial operation masquerading as a rescue service, I suspect that may actually be unlawful, for a start, their vessels would need to be in survey and their skipper would need a coxsains ticket at a minimum.

As far as we are concerned an engine failure in a boat with no other means of propulsion is a rescue situation now or a potential rescue situation later, in either case, we go and we don't charge for it. Period.

ON one and only one occasion have we sought cost recovery. It was Christmas Day two years ago. The boat went out to recover a boat that had a seized engine a couple miles out. ON the way, they came across a boat moored just outside the channel that hailed them and said their engine had died. The crew told them they would recover the boat further out first, then come back for them. They hooked up the other boat and towed them back, as they passed the other breakdown the skipper of the boat they had in tow commented that he'd towed that boat out here because they couldn't get their engine started! Naturally our skipper was not impressed so he called marine and harbours and the police. Went back and towed them in and they were met by the DMH inspector and a couple of cops. We heard that they were pursuing full cost recovery (a 28' cat with twin 225 Yamaha 4 strokes uses a lot of fuel) AND criminal charges for fraud as well as maritime related charges for going out in a boat that was unseaworthy, deficient safety gear etc.

Some people are just plain stupid.



Won't argue with the last part. But the situation you describe is unconscionable. People in need of rescue or recovery are vulnerable, that's why we don't charge.

Been to some 'real' ones too, including a fatal sinking. Not good. Going to fit the widow with a bill for recovering her husband's boat from the bottom too? Not bloody likely.

AussieGeoff

In recent years funding has become tight for the VMR and the situation Jim described for tows applies for non members in some states if not in SA. Lots of boaters in Qld are non members expecting to hitch a free tow.

More expensive vessels rescue vessels, all their costs have gone up and Govt funding is squeezing their operational budget such that they can no longer be a free tow service. We have Seatow in Australia that one can join. Don't know cost.

In life threatning emergencies there is no charge by VMR and similarly you can register your trip with them at no cost if not a member.

Just don't expect them to burn $1000 worth of fuel for a free tow.

Cheers

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by downunder

In recent years funding has become tight for the VMR and the situation Jim described for tows applies for non members in some states if not in SA.

I can't speak for other states but I've NEVER heard of such a thing in SA.
I'm aware of a particular operation that used to ah, 'commandeer' the fish catch of a boat they towed in, but that was considered inappropriate and they are no longer operating a service.

Originally Posted by downunder

Lots of boaters in Qld are non members expecting to hitch a free tow.

Not sure how that works. A broken down boat, regardless of the reason, is technically in distress. Non members? Members of what? You have to be a member of something? What is this the RACQ?

Originally Posted by downunder

More expensive vessels rescue vessels, all their costs have gone up and Govt funding is squeezing their operational budget such that they can no longer be a free tow service.

I can't speak for Queensland, but we don't charge for recovery, that's why there is an emergency services levy. It's been discussed (charging for non life threatened retrievals) but the sense has always been that knowing you will get stuck with a bill you maybe can't afford will cause you to hold off calling for help, perhaps until the situation deteriorates and does become a life threatening situation. So we ask for a donation. That's it.
NO billing. I see no likelihood of that changing.

Originally Posted by downunder

We have Seatow in Australia that one can join. Don't know cost.

We do? Not around my part of the country. I'd never heard of them before this thread got started. IF they do exist in this area, they'd starve to death I think, we'd only get a half dozen callouts or so a season. If they were anywhere, maybe Adelaide, that's a couple hundred miles from here unless you can fly, so they might as well be on Mars for all the good that would be.

Originally Posted by downunder

In life threatening emergencies there is no charge by VMR and similarly you can register your trip with them at no cost if not a member.

There's a Coast Guard Radio base here you can log in with. But they don't operate the rescue boat. They used to, but when SES got a vastly superior rescue craft, their funding was pulled and put across to the SES.
Not sure how many people are members, probably not many, no real advantage - that may be different elsewhere. (I think this 'membership' of the VCG is what you are talking about earlier right?)

Originally Posted by downunder

Just don't expect them to burn $1000 worth of fuel for a free tow.

We've burnt considerably more than that in fuel on several jobs. And no, we didn't bill them for it. The SES is funded by the Emergency Services Levy, so a donation is all we ask for and it's up to the boatie if he does or doesn't donate.

We spent most of a night pulling in a boat bigger than us that was on a delivery run from Adelaide. They ran out of fuel. Might not have been life threatening right away, but sooner or later it could have been. We took some diesel out to them and passed it in heavy seas in jerry cans. After an hour of stuffing around, they couldn't get fuel up to the day tank and couldn't get it started. So we towed them in. Took hours at about 5 to 6 knots from where they were.

They made a donation, but it didn't cover all or even most of the fuel we used, though they did pay for the fuel we took them.

Unless there is a major change of policy here, the 'no charge' is unlikely to change.

I think I just found (another) good reason not to move to Queensland or NSW.


Cheers

AussieGeoff

[Cheechako]

They have become a big ripoff, even if you are a member. I ran out of fuel on the ICW once (dont ask!) Had a membership, asked them if they could tow me about 1/2 mile to the marina. Before they arrived, a nice person called me on the vhf and on a sep channel informed me they would charge me about $650. I called Sea Tow back and told them I got things sorted out. They showed up anyway and I asked how much to get me a 5 gal can filled. They said they dont do that..... I said "see ya later". Used the dingy the next morning to get the can filled. It's become a big ripoff.

[Astrid]

Used the dingy the next morning to get the can filled.

Why didn't you use the dingy in the first place?

[Cheechako]

It was just getting dark and I didnt know if the Marina was open. Thought I might get a little service after years of paying Sea Tow!

[captain465]

Cheechaco, If you had a valid, non-expired membership with SEA//TOW, you would have been entitled to a free tow. SEA//TOW usually do not carry diesel fuel aboard, due to the very infrequent need of that fuel.(Diesel tends to degrade rapidly when exposed to sunlight) Gasoline is carried, and the fuel is charged for, but not the service of bringing it out to you. Are you sure that it was SEA//TOW that you called and responded to you??? Many people tend to use the words "sea tow" generically. There are many different assistance towing companies operating, but only SEA//TOW has a distinct YELLOW and BLACK color scheme on their boats. If indeed you had that experience, and were a valid member at the time, you should have contacted the international office (1-800-4 SEATOW) and described the situation to them, and they would have set things straight. SEA//TOW franchises are held to a very tight set of operating perameters, and are held accountable to the International.

[Cheechako]

I was sure a yellow boat arrived.. (do Sea Tow and Boat US share coverage?) At an rate, I have egg all over my face!.... I apologize to Sea Tow and the forum members.... just looked at my card and my membership is Boat US Unlimited Gold. (evidently a good one NOT to have!)

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by AussieGeoff

I think I just found (another) good reason not to move to Queensland or NSW.


Cheers

AussieGeoff

I know Jim Cate would never post a hearsay so I asked MR B as he has just used them
"Was about $850-00 or so for the Rescue, Totally voluntary if you paid it or not,"
So there you go they do bill so the honest person pays and the looser just get to use them another day. I have seen the cops give free tows in the bay but then they fine them for something so thats also a non starter.

[Ex-Calif]

This all appears to be in the category of "first world problems." there are no "towing clubs" in asia

I have grounded, I have had engine failures. I have never been towed and never intend to be towed. I have towed other boats with my boat, for free. I would never expect to be compensated for "helping out." if I ever found myself in serious need of a tow in my neck o woods I would call the nearest yacht club and work something out right neighborly like...

Another reason to be glad I don't live in the... Never mind.

Oh - I like steak and regularly have one at ponderosa for like 12 bucks. One time I went to Mortons of Chicago. Didnt look at the prices, didnt look at the menu. Ordered a 16oz filet and a bottle of wine. Ate the meal and when the $300 bill came I was outraged. I suppose I should have checked the prices first but really they should have asked me if I wanted a 300 dollar steak dinner...

[Hud3]

Speaking of steak...

I pulled a neighbor off a sand bar when we lived on the Chesapeake. They had drifted on it in light airs. No problem, I'd do it for a stranger, too.

Two weeks later a case of Omaha steaks arrived on my doorstep--a "thank you" from our neighbors. Entirely not necessary! But, we enjoyed the steaks!

[shorebird]

I over heard the following conversation on VHF ch 16 this summer:
"Vancouver Coast Guard, I need help!"
Coast Guard replies, gets position, souls onboard ect.
Coast Guard, I'm drifting, my engine quit."
"Are you in any immediate danger?
"Well its getting dark."
"Do you have running lights?"
"Well yeah, but I don't wanna spend the night out here"
"We can call a commercial towing company for you."
"Uh, no thanks, can you call my buddy?"
"We have a commercial towing company on the line, can be at your position in ten minutes."
"Uh, no thanks, can you call my buddy at ***-***?"
ten minutes later...
"Okay, we called your friend, he says he can't come to get you, but will pay for a tow company."
"Send them right away!"

[sabray]

similar I ran down a boat that was in obvious trouble. Turned out the backstay was hung up on the main halyard. I jumped aboard and coached the owner through a fix while keeping helm. I let him fix it while giving advice. Once it was sorted we shook hands and I Dinked to my mooring. A week later A gift card was in the cockpit.Nice but no need.
I set myself hard aground in CT guven the conditions I needed to get off. No one helped I really needed a good wake from a power boat but was refused. Sea tow hit me with a $600 fee. Interesting that CT has some law about licensing worst boaters I have seen on the East Coast.