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Old 05-10-2019, 14:42   #46
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Nothing better than a Hobie 16! Wet boats, but tons of fun! A friend of mine had one back in the 70's when they were running the Worrell 1000 Race down in Fort Lauderdale, up to Virginia Beach, back when they were using Hobie 16's. We talked about running it, but we never did it, and I have always regretted it.
Yeah, I used to live about 1 mile from Alexander's (Chick's Beach) which was the finish line

Here's how they/we did it 30 years later after beach cats adapted to spinnakers, plumb bows, deep daggerboards, and were lengthened to 20'. (this is the Inter 20 but they used the Nacra 6.0 a few years earlier but it didn't have the flat top main)

Brain Lambert of Ft Walton Beach (blue jacket/red hat) I believe is the first to blast thru this surf

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Old 05-10-2019, 16:38   #47
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

Rangemarker:

Quote: "Sailing vs Cruising … So is there a difference?"

I'm a little late to the party 'ere, but I've read the entire slew of replies, and I agree with the consensus that you aren't too sure what you are asking. I agree with Mike O'Reilly (I think it was), that sailing is merely boat handling. It's the least of a man's worries, particularly when like you, he's been around boats since he was a boy.

So what is "cruising"? IMO it is merely long periods of ennui, interspersed with a rather pedestrian activity called "sailing". For the time you are sailing you've something to occupy your mind (maybe even something as complex as Pilotage if you'll just turn off your chart-plotter) and you've something keep your aging bod active. Mine is 80yo and tells me helming while crossing Georgia Strait in a beam sea is the equivalent of a 25-mile hike ashore. So ennui is displaced. For the rest of the time, when you are not actually on passage, you need a substitute for sailing, lest time should come to hang heavy on your hands. Some men like to read. I do. I'm on a coast where the public libraries are all along the coast, and all furnish inter-library loan facilities. One card does 'em all. Every marina has a "take one, leave one" book-shelf in the laundry room. Just recently I've come across both "The Caine Mutiny" and "From Here to Eternity". Finding "Three Comrades" by Erich Maria Remarque" would be like striking gold :-)!

Some men need a workshop lest they go bonkers. I do. If you do, be a "hub'n'spoke" man. Rent a modest workshop near your marina. It'll do wonders for your boat maintenance! Some men like to garden. I don't but MyBeloved does. The local branch of the Royal Canadian Legion at our "hub" decided to revive the venerable tradition of the "Victory Garden". MB grew lotsa stuff and the local "foodbank" was most grateful for the contributions of fresh produce she was able to make.

In our marina we have a 24 footer that a really eccentric Californian lives on. Permanently. Fitted with every conceivable electronic device it is. And on the odd occasion when he's not "improving" the boat, he can, via the marina's WIFI, watch both KCTS outta Seattle and B.C.'s 'Knowledge" channel that furnishes intellectual fare that I doubt has the equal anywhere else! Netflix holds no interest for me, but I assume that's available too. I leave that to the couch potatoes, afloat as well as on shore.

TP is only 30 feet - thank God :-)! That's enuff maintenance to keep a man busy. Now in my dotage as in my youth, the few things I do below decks, I do best lying down. So space below decks is not really a concern. What about cooking? you say. I've had the great good fortune in my life to have had many friends from India and Africa. So I don't need a refrigerator - I simply cook as Indians and Africans do. So does MB, but she had to learn a style of cooking that was totally foreign to her. Ice cream is tough to keep without a reefer, but so what? Eat some fruit instead.

Well, I could go on, but you get the drift. Implicit in many of the answers to your lead-in question is an interpretation that you are talking all around your real fear — the fear of ennui. If that interpretation is right, then cheer up! It ain't gonna happen!

To keep physically and mentally active is something YOU decide to do. And it is YOU who decide just HOW to do it! And that is so regardless of whether you are aboard your snug little boat or ashore in your snug little condo! Never forget that the flip-side of the "American (and Canadian) Dream" is slavery — wage slavery!

All the best to you:-)

TrentePieds
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Old 05-10-2019, 16:49   #48
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Rangemarker:

Quote: "Sailing vs Cruising … So is there a difference?"

I'm a little late to the party 'ere, but I've read the entire slew of replies, and I agree with the consensus that you aren't too sure what you are asking. I agree with Mike O'Reilly (I think it was), that sailing is merely boat handling. It's the least of a man's worries, particularly when like you, he's been around boats since he was a boy.

So what is "cruising"? IMO it is merely long periods of ennui, interspersed with a rather pedestrian activity called "sailing". For the time you are sailing you've something to occupy your mind (maybe even something as complex as Pilotage if you'll just turn off your chart-plotter) and you've something keep your aging bod active. Mine is 80yo and tells me helming while crossing Georgia Strait in a beam sea is the equivalent of a 25-mile hike ashore. So ennui is displaced. For the rest of the time, when you are not actually on passage, you need a substitute for sailing, lest time should come to hang heavy on your hands. Some men like to read. I do. I'm on a coast where the public libraries are all along the coast, and all furnish inter-library loan facilities. One card does 'em all. Every marina has a "take one, leave one" book-shelf in the laundry room. Just recently I've come across both "The Caine Mutiny" and "From Here to Eternity". Finding "Three Comrades" by Erich Maria Remarque" would be like striking gold :-)!

Some men need a workshop lest they go bonkers. I do. If you do, be a "hub'n'spoke" man. Rent a modest workshop near your marina. It'll do wonders for your boat maintenance! Some men like to garden. I don't but MyBeloved does. The local branch of the Royal Canadian Legion at our "hub" decided to revive the venerable tradition of the "Victory Garden". MB grew lotsa stuff and the local "foodbank" was most grateful for the contributions of fresh produce she was able to make.

In our marina we have a 24 footer that a really eccentric Californian lives on. Permanently. Fitted with every conceivable electronic device it is. And on the odd occasion when he's not "improving" the boat, he can, via the marina's WIFI, watch both KCTS outta Seattle and B.C.'s 'Knowledge" channel that furnishes intellectual fare that I doubt has the equal anywhere else! Netflix holds no interest for me, but I assume that's available too. I leave that to the couch potatoes, afloat as well as on shore.

TP is only 30 feet - thank God :-)! That's enuff maintenance to keep a man busy. Now in my dotage as in my youth, the few things I do below decks, I do best lying down. So space below decks is not really a concern. What about cooking? you say. I've had the great good fortune in my life to have had many friends from India and Africa. So I don't need a refrigerator - I simply cook as Indians and Africans do. So does MB, but she had to learn a style of cooking that was totally foreign to her. Ice cream is tough to keep without a reefer, but so what? Eat some fruit instead.

Well, I could go on, but you get the drift. Implicit in many of the answers to your lead-in question is an interpretation that you are talking all around your real fear — the fear of ennui. If that interpretation is right, then cheer up! It ain't gonna happen!

To keep physically and mentally active is something YOU decide to do. And it is YOU who decide just HOW to do it! And that is so regardless of whether you are aboard your snug little boat or ashore in your snug little condo! Never forget that the flip-side of the "American (and Canadian) Dream" is slavery — wage slavery!

All the best to you:-)

TrentePieds
Great post Thanks.

I just reread All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque.

Then it was most of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand until I'd had enough of it then It was The Long Road Home which was about the battle of Sadr City in 2004

Before that it was Red Sky In Mourning By Tami Ashcroft. Later the movie would be called Adrift and the lady that played Tami was great!


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Old 05-10-2019, 17:00   #49
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

So there - you obviously DO know what to do with yourself :-0)! So get off the treadmill and go cruising.

As for Ayn Rand. You gotta stay away from those female Russian émigrés. They are weird. In my time it was Helena Blavatsky :-)

TP
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Old 05-10-2019, 17:07   #50
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
So there - you obviously DO know what to do with yourself :-0)! So get off the treadmill and go cruising.

As for Ayn Rand. You gotta stay away from those female Russian émigrés. They are weird. In my time it was Helena Blavatsky :-)

TP

(I did enjoy the Fountainhead though with Howard and Dominique)

Maybe in a few years, but for now, it's local sailing/cruising.

I actually bought a long handled scrub brush today and scrub the deck of my boat. Then tied the anchor off a bit on deck for tomorrow.

Tomorrow we have southerly winds predicted (good for here) at 15 knots which is just about perfect!
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Old 05-10-2019, 17:33   #51
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by Rangemarker25 View Post
Does it though?

I thought I knew everything early on but soon realized that maybe I didn't.

I learn cool things everyday from my young techs at work when I'm not having to push them to get stuff done.

My youngest tech was born in the early 90's! He's never heard of an 8 track or cassette player! And doesn't remember when folks actually lived without cell phones

I try to run my 3 miles once a week which includes a bit of yoga (which rednecks like me would never have done back in the day and now it kicks my ass) plus pullups and pushups and weights when I have the energy
Sounds like you think learning and working are somehow interconnected. If you retire someday, which I highly recommend everyone does as early as possible, you will ‘learn’ that’s a fallacy. They are in fact mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-10-2019, 17:47   #52
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by Rangemarker25 View Post
So is there a difference?

I'm thinking there is a big difference between those that want to motor or sail a few miles then hang out a marina (or anchorage) on a condo style late modern fin keel boat for a few weeks and call it cruising compared to those that have an objective to sail the world or their immediate area for a few years

This sort of goes back to the full keel boat threads that have recently popped up.

If you are constantly on the move for a few weeks, months, or even years then the old narrow full keel boats that can be had at a very low price might be the best boat to purchase at least until you figure out if you actually enjoy the cruising life since it isn't about hanging out down below etc unless it has to do with sleep or bad weather
For me it's hard to parse your last paragraph. It either means what boat is best for cruising or asking does it make sense to buy a cheap boat to decide whether you like cruising.

Taking the second first, if you buy a boat that doesn't fit in with your lifestyle I think you're much more likely to decide you don't like cruising.

As to what is best for cruising, it is again what works for you. We met a couple in Hawaii that had sailed there in a tiny 24' foot trimaran and were working to save up for the next leg.

Using cruisers that have written about cruising. Someone has already mentioned the Pardeys. Read their books about engineless cruising no electricity on a 24 footer.
Eric Hiscock sailed on smaller boats.
The books by the Dashews, they did their first world navigation on a CCA rule 50 foot Columbia, then moved on to Deerfoots and Sundeers.
Liza Copeland family of 5 on a First Beneteau 38.
Webb Chiles around the world articles on an open decked 16' Drascombe lugger.

I think it was in Adlard Cole's book Heavy Weather Sailing, there was a paragraph that struck me. Something about why would you need standing head room, the cabin is for cooking and sleeping.

Plenty of examples that the boat style selected has a lot to do with personal preference.
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Old 05-10-2019, 18:09   #53
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

At 58 I went to live on my boat and found that I had swapped a high, and expensive, standard of living for a higher, low cost, quality of life and am well satisfied with the bargain.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:26   #54
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Sounds like you think learning and working are somehow interconnected. If you retire someday, which I highly recommend everyone does as early as possible, you will ‘learn’ that’s a fallacy. They are in fact mutually exclusive.

Well, that's not totally correct unless maybe you work at toll booth on the highway and then you will still learn a few things

My job is technical: electronics, electrical, computers, and hydraulics.


(plus hiring, medical plans, cyber training, timesheets, reports/spreadsheets which includes adjusting/changing the excel spreadsheet as required, etc, etc)

Since the 1970's things have changed so much an old school tech would be lost as would a young tech on some of our old systems

Our last system with mainframe computers will be pulled out soon. It was built in the early 90's. Some of the drives are as small as 3 gig. When it breaks, only techs with an AARP Card have the ability to repair it!

The computers that will replace them have 32 gig of RAM!

We have UPS Units with as many as 72 batteries 12 volts each with Float etc readily displayed on the front panel

Then we many times have additional time when we are not busy the whole 8 hour day although at least for me this is decreasing

Also today there's much more emphasis on software as the hardware is becoming pretty stable unlike in the 70's thru the 90's. but now with interactive systems there the cyber concerns

Many of these things relate to sailing or at least sailboat maintenance so I don't see that learning and working are mutually exclusive
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:43   #55
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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For me it's hard to parse your last paragraph. It either means what boat is best for cruising or asking does it make sense to buy a cheap boat to decide whether you like cruising.

Taking the second first, if you buy a boat that doesn't fit in with your lifestyle I think you're much more likely to decide you don't like cruising.

As to what is best for cruising, it is again what works for you. We met a couple in Hawaii that had sailed there in a tiny 24' foot trimaran and were working to save up for the next leg.

Using cruisers that have written about cruising. Someone has already mentioned the Pardeys. Read their books about engineless cruising no electricity on a 24 footer.
Eric Hiscock sailed on smaller boats.
The books by the Dashews, they did their first world navigation on a CCA rule 50 foot Columbia, then moved on to Deerfoots and Sundeers.
Liza Copeland family of 5 on a First Beneteau 38.
Webb Chiles around the world articles on an open decked 16' Drascombe lugger.

I think it was in Adlard Cole's book Heavy Weather Sailing, there was a paragraph that struck me. Something about why would you need standing head room, the cabin is for cooking and sleeping.

Plenty of examples that the boat style selected has a lot to do with personal preference.
I already have the cheap, small boat, now I'm in the deciding phase

Some of those so called small boats those guys above sailed were total beasts.

Eric Hiscock's 30' Wander III for example weighed in at 8 tons! (16,000 lbs)

The Pardey's 30'er had a cruising displacement of 17,800 lbs

These are some special "small" boats I'm thinking

My 27' boat which is considered heavy displaces 6,600 lbs

As far as what was mentioned in Adlard Cole's book about the cabin is basically true for me now but I'm usually not on the boat more than a week.

If cruising full time, this might get old
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:49   #56
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Yeah, I used to live about 1 mile from Alexander's (Chick's Beach) which was the finish line

Here's how they/we did it 30 years later after beach cats adapted to spinnakers, plumb bows, deep daggerboards, and were lengthened to 20'. (this is the Inter 20 but they used the Nacra 6.0 a few years earlier but it didn't have the flat top main)

Brain Lambert of Ft Walton Beach (blue jacket/red hat) I believe is the first to blast thru this surf

Yep, definitely out of my league these days!
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:09   #57
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

For me it is a difference between sailing and cruising.
Maybe it's a language thing, and as a foreigner I do distinguish between the both too much.

A Sailor is in my world somebody who hire up on a ship to make money, it is a professon, sailors are crews, captains and deck hands tha cross the waters with an order to do something (marines, coast guard, oil plattform staff, researchers, sportsmen in races) , transport something from A to B, do charters etc.. The reason is not the way and lifestyle but the goal to be achieved, while the vessel is only a vehicle, a work horse.

In contrast to cruisers and liveaboards.

A cruiser is someone, that uses the boat for leasure, to live on board part or full time, explore the waters, escape the cold or hot, the rat race, enjoy themselves and live their dreams, while moving from time to time to varios locations. The boat is not only a vehicle, but a mobile home, the purpose is joy, curiosity, fun and quality time. Usually they spent money while sailing and not make money with sailing.

Liveaboards are cruisers at a very slow pace, The movement can vary from slow sailing between locations to a few inches in a decade at a marina dock, the only requirement is they are afloat most of the time. The purpose here is not even exploring the world, but just living on the water, maybe in a community of like minded people, it is an alternative lifestyle compared to a tiny house or mobile home.

So difference maybe similar to a Truck driver , RV driver and trailer owner. While the trucker uses the road to deliver things, the RV driver enjoys the road and the landscape and the trailor guy does not even need the road any more.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:10   #58
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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Yep, definitely out of my league these days!
Evidently me too.

Even the yearly 100 mile RTI race we used to do which started in Ft Walton Beach, FL then went out Destin Pass, take a right at the Sea Buoy then sail 55 miles and back in Pensacola Pass for the return to Ft Walton has been made into a two day race

The first day is to Pensacola Pass with the boats stopping at Ft Pickens. Leg two is the inside race back to Fort Walton.

Back when it was a one day race, the white flag went up at 0700 so you had to have already set up and loaded your boat and be at or near the starting line before that which for some meant getting up at 4 am

I've seen the race completed by 4 pm (1995). I completed it in 12 hours on a sloop rigged Nacra 6.0 in 1997. If I'd had a spinnaker I'd have been in the "money." I would have placed. There were 82 boats on the starting line that year

I /we came in Pensacola pass alongside Randy Smyth on his F25C then after turning back East he popped his spinnaker and was gone. I had only become aware of spinnakers on beach cats the year before

My latest finish same race, same start time was 2:30am. This happened twice. Another finish was 9:30 pm and still another just after 7pm
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:22   #59
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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For me it is a difference between sailing and cruising.
Maybe it's a language thing, and as a foreigner I do distinguish between the both too much.

A Sailor is in my world somebody who hire up on a ship to make money, it is a professon, sailors are crews, captains and deck hands tha cross the waters with an order to do something (marines, coast guard, oil plattform staff, researchers, sportsmen in races) , transport something from A to B, do charters etc.. The reason is not the way and lifestyle but the goal to be achieved, while the vessel is only a vehicle, a work horse.

In contrast to cruisers and liveaboards.

A cruiser is someone, that uses the boat for leasure, to live on board part or full time, explore the waters, escape the cold or hot, the rat race, enjoy themselves and live their dreams, while moving from time to time to varios locations. The boat is not only a vehicle, but a mobile home, the purpose is joy, curiosity, fun and quality time. Usually they spent money while sailing and not make money with sailing.

Liveaboards are cruisers at a very slow pace, The movement can vary from slow sailing between locations to a few inches in a decade at a marina dock, the only requirement is they are afloat most of the time. The purpose here is not even exploring the world, but just living on the water, maybe in a community of like minded people, it is an alternative lifestyle compared to a tiny house or mobile home.

So difference maybe similar to a Truck driver , RV driver and trailer owner. While the trucker uses the road to deliver things, the RV driver enjoys the road and the landscape and the trailor guy does not even need the road any more.
So how about a liveaboard/cruiser.

Since I'll still be a home owner with extended family there, maybe another option would be to sail back say to the Gulf Coast then fly home (or get a rental) and pick up a vehicle to bring back to my new location then stay there for a few weeks or months

This might be a good way to transition into full time cruiser guy or at least test the waters so to speak

Then I'd be somewhat like one of those liveaboards you see with his SUV or car crammed with all the crap he doesn't have room for on the boat which for me would be full size bike, maybe some tools, clothes, shoes, etc, etc
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:59   #60
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Re: Sailing vs Cruising

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You know, I was going to do a real reply. But your second paragraph just seemed insulting and targeted that I realized what the real objective appeared to be.
I agree that there are some overtones and a concern with fronting for others/looking superior rather than enjoying their own path.

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I'm just one of those that thinks it's a bad thing to actually retire FOR ME.
There, fixed that for ya. If you would preface more of your statements with "for me", you'd offend a lot fewer people.

As my young adult daughters like to say "you do you".
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